March 19, 1930

PURCHASE OF VESSELS

CON

Mr. THOMPSON:

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. What boats have been purchased or ordered during the last 18 months by the government for the following departments: (a) Public Works; (b) Marine and Fisheries; (e) Indian Affairs; (d) Interior Department; (e) Department of National Defence; (f) Department of National Revenue?

2. What was the size and purchase price of the said vessels and the names of vendors or builders in each case?

3. Were tenders called for?

4. If so, how and when?

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   PURCHASE OF VESSELS
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QUEBEC CITADEL-COST OF REHABILITATION

UFA

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

United Farmers of Alberta

1. What is the total cost to date of the rehabilitation of the citadel at Quebec for occupation by the governor general?

Immigration Policy-Mr. Donnelly

2. What was the cost of: (a) repairs and

alterations; (b) furnishings; (c) electrical fixtures? ,

3. During what periods has the governor general actually been in residence since the citadel was rehabilitated?

4. What is the cost of maintenance: (a)

when in residence; (b) when not in residence.

5. What was the cost of fuel, etc., m the winter months of November, December, January and February, 1929 and 1930?

Topic:   QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Subtopic:   QUEBEC CITADEL-COST OF REHABILITATION
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UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR PAPERS

PIER NO. 9, HALIFAX

CON

Thomas Cantley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CANTLEY:

For a copy of all correspondence between the Halifax harbour commission and the Nova Scotia Chemical Company Limited, The Canada Cement Company, also Alfred T. 0 Leary, referring or relating in any way to the leasing of space on Pier 9, Halifax harbour; also a copy of all correspondence between the said Halifax harbour commission and any department of the Dominion government, relating in any way to such leases; also a copy of all correspondence, if any, between the said Halifax harbour commission and any department of the Dominion government as to bonding privileges on said pier.

Topic:   UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   PIER NO. 9, HALIFAX
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MAYO-FORT NORMAN SURVEY

CON

George Black

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLACK (Yukon):

For a copy of all correspondence, reports, recommendations, communications and documents, in possession or control of the government, relating to the investigation, survey, location, construction or building of a trail, road or highway, across the Rocky mountains between Mayo in Yukon territory and Fort Norman in Northwest territories or thereabouts.

CANADIAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE Sir GEORGE PERLEY (Argenteuil) moved: For a copy of memoranda, orders, and correspondence, on the files of the Department of Overseas Military Forces of Canada, setting forth the policy adopted in 1917 for the control of the Canadian forces overseas, and similar documents showing the means whereby that policy was made operative.

Topic:   MAYO-FORT NORMAN SURVEY
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LIB

James Malcolm (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Hon. JAMES MALCOLM (Acting Minister of National Defence):

I would point out that if this motion requires only the production of pertinent documents relating to the adoption in 1917 of the policy for control of the Canadian forces overseas and the general administrative orders which placed that policy in operation, there will be no trouble in having the papers produced, but if the motion involves the production of papers relating to all details of administration as a result of that policy, it would entail the production of a mass of papers, requiring a great deal of resarch and labour. The department wish to advise me that all the pertinent documents can be brought down without any difficulty, if that will be satisfactory.

Topic:   MAYO-FORT NORMAN SURVEY
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CON

George Halsey Perley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE PERLEY:

It will be quite

satisfactory if I receive the papers according to the minister's suggestion.

Topic:   MAYO-FORT NORMAN SURVEY
Permalink

Motion agreed to.


IMMIGRATION POLICY

PROPOSAL TO DISCONTINUE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE EXCEPT IN CASE OF FEMALE DOMESTICS

LIB

Thomas F. Donnelly

Liberal

Mr. THOMAS DONNELLY (Willow Bunch) moved:

That, in the opinion of this house, the time has arrived when the federal government of the Dominion of Canada should no longer assist immigrants to this country in any financial way, except in so far as financial assistance is at present being extended to female domestics.

He said: Mr. Speaker, I do not feel that

I should apologize to this house for discussing briefly a subject of such importance as immigration, because during the past ten years it has been discussed by almost every public man throughout the Dominion either on the public platform or in the press, and almost every public man has expressed himself in one way or the other with regard to it. So much importance was attached by the house to this question of immigration that two years ago the whole matter was referred to the committee on immigration and colonization for consideration and report. At that time we heard witnesses from every part of Canada, and almost every one of them expressed the view that what Canada needed more than anything else was a greater number of people. They said if we were going to be a great country, then we needed more population, as though numbers would make a country great, and as though all we needed was to bring in more people and then we would have a great country. If numbers alone made a country, China to day would be one of the greatest countries of the world. But we need something more than mere numbers, Mr. Speaker; we need quality. Quality counts more than numbers. If we can only get the right kind and the right class of immigrants then there is some hope and some chance of our becoming a great country in the future.

The other point on which all these witnesses seemed to agree was that the one class of immigrants wanted was the farming class. They all emphasized the point that we could bring in all the farmers available and it would do the country good. All we needed was more population, and particularly more farmers. The strange thing about this unanimity was that the man most interested in the whole thing, the man doing the actual farm work, was never called before the committee to give evidence at all. Everybody was heardl

752 COMMONS

Immigration Policy-Mr. Donnelly

except the dirt farmer himself. We had some people before the committee representing the farmers, but they were not engaged in the actual work on the farm. The farmers themselves of late have been studying this question just as closely as anybody else, and they are absolutely opposed to anything in the nature of an active immigration policy. They believe that it is just as possible to have over-production of agricultural products as of any other commodity. They believe that we can have over-production of wheat, for example, just as easily as we can have over-production of automobiles or of any other manufactured articles. We have seen that due to over-production our wheat to-day is down to such a price that the farmers in the west cannot make a living out of wheat-growing. This is due to over-production. The other day I saw in the local press a statement made by Mr. Legge, chairman of the United States farm board, in a message to George F. Shafer, governor of North Dakota, that:

No other industry in the world blindly produces without any attention to potential market possibilities.

And he added:

Your growers will ask how they are going to get along with a less production, but if they can get more money, and we believe they can, by raising four bushels where they are now raising five, why should they destroy the market by raising the extra bushel?

We see therefore that it is just as possible to have over-production of farm products as of any other commodity. Poor prices for farm products mean a reduced standard of living for the farmer. It comes to this: if

we bring in more farmers, and in consequence have a greater production of wheat or other products of the farm, our farmers will be reduced to the state of serfs or peons.

The farmer believes in one policy, Mr. Speaker, and one policy only, with regard to immigration; he believes that the best immigration policy is to make the farmer and the labourer happy, prosperous and contented. If we can make our people happy, prosperous and contented we do not need an immigration policy. The question then before the immigration department will not be, how to get more people into this country, but how to keep them out; and that is the condition of things that we want to see.

How are we to bring about that desirable state of affairs? How are we to make our farmers happy, prosperous and contented? The farmer believes that this can be done in two ways, first by reducing the cost of production and secondly, by reducing marketing costs. We can reduce the costs of pro-

duction just the same as it is done by any manufacturing concern, by mass production. Automobiles to-day are manufactured cheaper than they were years ago simply by mass production. And so the farmer to-day is raising more wheat by mass production. Twenty-five years ago when I went into western Canada the farmer was driving a three-horse one-furrow plough; to-day he is driving eight, ten, or twelve horses, turning three or four-furrows; if he is not using horses he has a tractor pulling a four or five-furrow plough. The same applied to other agricultural implements. Twenty-five years ago the farmer was driving a sixteen-run seeder; to-day he is driving a thirty-two run seeder, using for the purpose either horses or a tractor. Twenty-five years ago the farmer was running a six-foot binder, stookers following behind stooking the grain. Two or three weeks later he would engage a threshing outfit with ten, fifteen or twenty men in the gang, and they would do his threshing and probably eat up his feed grain. To-day we find the farmer in western Canada is driving a sixteen or twenty-foot combine, with the result that he and his hired men are cutting, threshing and marketing the crop with half the help, yes, with one eighth the help he employed twenty-five years ago. To sum up in regard to mass production, the farmer to-day is handling 640 acres of land just as easily as twenty-five years ago he handled 160 acres. This means that we have fewer farmers and greater production.

Another way in which we can reduce the cost of production is by reducing the cost of the implements of production and of the necessities of life. To this end the farmers have been assisted somewhat by this government. For instance, last year they cut the duty on combines, which meant a saving to the farmer of $50 to $100, depending on the size of the combine he purchased. Some years ago the government also reduced the duty on agricultural implements, which meant a corresponding reduction in their cost to the farmers of western Canada. Not only that but this government has reduced the cost of many of the necessaries of life. So the farmer to-day is in a better position with regard to his implements and the necessaries of life than he was twenty-five years ago. We hope and expect that the government will do more along that line so as still further to reduce the cost of these things to the farmers throughout the country and thus put them in a better financial position. Another way in which this cost of production can be reduced

Immigration Policy-Mr. Donnelly

to the farmer is by reducing marketing costs. The farmers themselves have not been unmindful of this and have endeavoured to cut out the middleman as much as possible in order that they may obtain the maximum of what is paid by the consumer and turn it back to the producer. During the last few years the farmers of western Canada have organized themselves into one of the greatest cooperative marketing institutions the world has ever known; I refer to the wheat pool. Much of the middleman's costs have been cut out by this wheat pool, and our farmers have benefited exceedingly by this step during the last few years. Within the past few days on account of the condition of the wheat market we have had much adverse criticism of the wheat pool. We are sorry to see that our organized grain trade, our millers and the financial interests throughout the country are trying to discredit the wheat pool in the eyes of the public, and we hope and trust that the public, when they know the facts with regard to the handling of the grain by our wheat pool, will realize the importance of the pool and its necessity to our farming institutions in the west. We are glad to see that our western provinces have come to its assistance so that it may be tided over this crisis, and we believe that when the crisis has passed, the pool will be the better for the ordeal through which it has passed.

Another way in which a decreased cost of marketing can be made effective to the farmer is by reducing the cost of transportation. In western Canada -we are in the unfortunate position of living in the middle of a continent, and on all the necessities of life that we use and must have, we are obliged to pay a long freight haul. Everything that we produce to be sold in the markets of the world, is affected in the same wav. In both cases the freight comes out of the pockets of the farmers, and anything that can be done to reduce this freight haul means a profit to the farmers. We are gkd to know that years ago a Liberal government in their wisdom, put on the statute books of Canada what is known as the Crows-nest pass agreement, and it was through a Liberal government, with the aid of some other sections in this house, that we were able to retain the Crowsnest pass agreement on the statute books. May I say here, Mr. Speaker, that the Crowsnest pass agreement means to the farmers of western Canada, especially those who live in the central part of Saskatchewan, a saving of as much as 6 cents a bushel on every bushel of wheat they market. It has been of immeasurable benefit to them.

Another way in which this government has been helping with regard to the marketing of our wheat has been in the building of the Hudson Bay railway. We hope in the next few years, when this railway is completed and ive begin to ship our grain and produce over that railway, we shall be able to bring in by that route some of the necessities of life, with the result that much of the freight charges and the cost of handling our produce will be reduced and the farmers of western Canada again will be helped. This is the way, Mr. Speaker, that the farmers of western Canada can be assisted, and they believe it is the only way-the keeping down of the cost of production and a reduction of their marketing cost.

Who, then, is asking for an aggressive immigration policy for this country? Is the labouring man asking for it? Does he want more labourers to come into the country than can be employed, with the result that his wages will be cut down? I think not. I cannot believe that the labourers are in favour of such a policy. I am certain, too, that the farmers are not asking for an aggressive immigration policy. I have been farming in western Canada, Mr. Speaker, for twenty-five years, on an extensive scale. I have associated with farmers during that period; I know their mentality, and I can assert that they do not want an aggressive immigration policy in western Canada, which would mean bringing in more immigrants to compete with them. As I view it, the people who are asking for such a policy are the manufacturers. They figure that if only they can get an aggressive immigration policy by which a large number of people will be brought into the country, they will be abl? to get cheaper labour. Our contractors, too, are asking for it. The contractor who takes a job believes that if he can get enough of this cheap labour coming into the country he will be able to make a handsome profit on his contract. Who else is there besides those? Well, we have some others-

Topic:   IMMIGRATION POLICY
Subtopic:   PROPOSAL TO DISCONTINUE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE EXCEPT IN CASE OF FEMALE DOMESTICS
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CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

What about the members from Montreal?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION POLICY
Subtopic:   PROPOSAL TO DISCONTINUE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE EXCEPT IN CASE OF FEMALE DOMESTICS
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LIB

Thomas F. Donnelly

Liberal

Mr. DONNELLY:

Yes, there may be some from Montreal who want it; I do not doubt that, because Montreal is a manufacturing centre. And there may be some members from those parts of the country where they manufacture automobiles and automobile parts, such as the section represented by my hon. friend who has just spoken. The great transportation companies are also asking for it. They have land in western Canada, and they believe that if they can get large numbers of people in from foreign countries they can dispose of

Immigration Policy-Mr. Donnelly

their land. Not only that, but they will get also their transportation fares and the revenue from the freight on their goods coming in, the produce that they sell, and the necessities of life that they buy. Thus they say we will make the railways pay. They will get them 'both coming and going.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION POLICY
Subtopic:   PROPOSAL TO DISCONTINUE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE EXCEPT IN CASE OF FEMALE DOMESTICS
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LAB

Herbert Bealey Adshead

Labour

Mr. ADSHEAD:

Are those assisted passages?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION POLICY
Subtopic:   PROPOSAL TO DISCONTINUE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE EXCEPT IN CASE OF FEMALE DOMESTICS
Permalink
LIB

Thomas F. Donnelly

Liberal

Mr. DONNELLY:

No, all immigration, whether assisted or not. They want any kind, no matter what it is. Another class of people who are asking for it is some of the members of this house. I listened to the speech of the hon. member for North Vancouver (Mr. McRae), last year or the year before, on the question of immigration. He got a lot of publicity by making a great immigration speech in the house. He said he wanted this government to spend three hundred million dollars in the clearing of land and the building of homes in the northern parts of our western provinces, in that way getting immigrants to come to Canada. I assume that the hon. gentleman was speaking for the Conservative party. He is a front bencher now, in fact he is the Conservative organizer, and probably will be the next Minister of Immigration.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION POLICY
Subtopic:   PROPOSAL TO DISCONTINUE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE EXCEPT IN CASE OF FEMALE DOMESTICS
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION POLICY
Subtopic:   PROPOSAL TO DISCONTINUE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE EXCEPT IN CASE OF FEMALE DOMESTICS
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March 19, 1930