June 6, 1929

LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

1 and 2. Mr. W. J. Thibeau is authorized to act as a customs excise enforcement officer, without salary.

3. He was paid no commissions or expenses but was paid $223.26 as his share of awards in customs seizures.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE- MR. W. J. THIBEAU
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GRAND TRUNK STOCKHOLDERS


On the orders of the day:


CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Leader of the Opposition):

I would like to direct the attention of the Prime Minister to a cable which I have received from a friend in London, stating that the Grand Trunk perpetual stockholders offered to; send a deputation to Ottawa to negotiate a friendly settlement of their difficulties, but that nothing came of the offer. He requested me to ask whether or not .the government intended to take any action in the premises during the recess' towards carrying on such negotiations.

332S

Supply-Marine and Fisheries

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING

(Prime Minister): These so-called negotiations were commenced when a previous administration was in office; I think Mr. Meighen was Prime Minister at the time. I had gathered that they had been ended some time ago.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   GRAND TRUNK STOCKHOLDERS
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YUKON QUARTZ MINING ACT AMENDMENT


Hon. CHARLES STEWART (Minister of the Interior) moved the second reading of Bill No. 343, to amend the Yukon Quartz Mining Act. Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and the house went into committee thereon, Mr. Johnston in the chair. On section 1-Location valid, etc.


UFA

Henry Elvins Spencer

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. SPENCER:

Would the minister give

us some explanation?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   YUKON QUARTZ MINING ACT AMENDMENT
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

The object

of this amendment to the Yukon Quartz Mining Act is to assist in the better administration of the act and to prevent action being taken by claim jumpers where very substantial compliance with the regulations has been undertaken by the lessee. One case arose in the Yukon over the fact that the location was not quite accurately described, and there was some slight difficulty with regard to payment. I am not quite clear as to all that happened, but I understand that the judge sustained the lessee. Another action is about to be commenced dealing largely with the size of the stakes, and this amendment is designed as a direction to the court that where substantial compliance with the regulations has been undertaken and carried out, the full and minute compliance with the regulations as provided in the act will not entitle the court to give a decision cancelling the lease.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   YUKON QUARTZ MINING ACT AMENDMENT
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Section agreed to. Section 2 agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed.


MARINE AND FISHERIES


The house in committee of supply, Mr. Johnston in the chair. Life-saving service, including rewards for saving life, $80,000.


CON

John Alexander (1883-1945) Macdonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDONALD (Richmond-West Cape Breton):

Would the minister advise the committee of his intention as to placing a lifesaving station at Scatarie island?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Hon. P. J. A. CARDIN (Minister of Marine and Fisheries):

Mr. Chairman, I realize the importance of the matter which was raised by my hon. friend last night, but I doubt very much if he appreciates the extent of the expenditure necessary were the government to accede to all the representations which are made in regard to the establishment of live-saving stations. The government last year considered the matter of placing a life-saving station at Scatarie island, and it also considered the placing of similar stations at Whitehead and Halifax. When the matter of costs was looked into it was found that it would cost $550,000 to set up these three stations with modern life-saving equipment. The committee will realize what it would cost if this service were extended all over the country. I must confess that when my officers submitted that figure I was somewhat frightened, and I hesitated to ask parliament to vote such a large sum for the establishment of these life-saving stations. The department is not losing sight of the importance of such stations at certain points, but we must realize that it would be impossible for Canada to meet all the requests which have been made for the establishment of life-saving stations. During the last session hon. members from Toronto complained because the department had not established sufficient life-saving stations on the great lakes and that we were not fulfilling our duty in protecting life on these inland waters. If we were to establish modern life-saving stations all over the country it would cost millions of dollars. The United States has been cited as an example, but I visited one of their life-saving stations last year and as far as efficiency is concerned I do not thinlc they are very much ahead of Canada. In that .country the life-saving organization is joined with the coast guard service and Canada might consider the joining of our life-saving service with the protective and patrol service of the National Revenue department and the Fisheries department. I was told by the man in charge of this station which I visited that he had been there for twenty-five years and during that time he had not used the devices which were placed at his disposal. A small gasoline boat on the great lakes would be of very little assistance to a vessel which might be in difficulties in the middle of the lake or at the opposite end, and to give effective service it would mean

Supply-Marine and Fisheries

the establishing of a very expensive organization, and I think we should hesitate before entering into such a large program.

The case of Scaterie island is still being considered by the department. At the present time the deputy minister is in England investigating the system which they have there, and I would advise the hon. member for Richmond-West Cape Breton (Mr. Macdonald) that the case of Scaterie island is very well known to the deputy minister. After giving this matter very careful and full consideration I came to the conclusion that if these requests are to be met it will be necessary for me to come before parliament and ascertain if it is the desire of the house that we have a yearly expenditure of over $1,000,000. The amount for which we are asking is not very large, $80,000, when one considers the extended service which is provided. Our Object always has been to meet the conditions which arise at particular points which we consider to be the most important as far as protecting life is concerned. I realize that Scatarie island is an important point and I can assure my hon. friend that that matter is not being lost sight of.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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CON

Joseph Henry Harris

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HARRIS:

Mr. Chairman, the minister has made reference to the great lakes and to the city of Toronto, and before this vote is passed I would like to refer to the complaints which have been made as to the inspection service of passenger boats on the great lakes and the inadequate supply of rafts and lifesaving apparatus on those boats. Some of the boats are from twenty to thirty years old and they are still carrying very heavy passenger lists across the great lakes. Perhaps the minister would make a few observations with regard to this particular inspection service over which he has control and as to the adequacy of the life-saving apparatus on these vessels.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

What my hon. friend has mentioned was the subject of certain study, but one of the hon. members representing the city of Toronto made a direct observation with regard to the life-saving stations that we have around the lakes. With regard to the last point raised by my hon. friend, this is the business of the ship inspectors, and the instructions which they receive from the department are very strict. If my hon. friend has any case in which the inspector has not been fulfilling his duty, I shall be glad to hear of it and to take the necessary means to correct it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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CON

Robert James Manion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

I took some part in that

discussion last year when one of the Toronto

members brought up the matter. I suggested at the time that the department or the government should have some form of meeting with the vessel owners and the employees on the boats in order to discuss the question of curtailing the movements of vessels to a certain extent for the last few days at least of the season's navigation. My recollection is that the minister at that time said that such a proposal wras intended to be carried out. What has been done in that regard?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

We have always made representations to the ship owners to cease navigating the lakes when the season was reasonably closed. We find that most of the accidents happening on the lakes occur after what we call the regular or reasonable close of navigation. But we have always been making representations to these companies that they should not take upon themselves the great risk of navigating the lakes when the reasonable season is closed. They are not always disposed to act upon the representations we make. We are trying to curtail as much as possible the risks they are taking in navigating too late on the lakes.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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CON

Robert James Manion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

I entirely agree with the minister that the danger is after the reasonable season of navigation is over. At times an attitude of carelessness has been taken towards the lives of the men employed upon vessels. I wish again to impress upon the minister the reasonableness of endeavouring to have what has been suggested carried out. I do not wish to suggest an unreasonable curtailment of the season of navigation, but certainly it should be the duty of parliament as far as possible to preserve the lives of the seamen from any absolutely unnecessary dangers to which they are exposed by an unreasonable extension of the navigation period.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDONALD (Richmond):

I note that the minister objects to improvement of the life-saving station at Scatarie island, and I am very sorry that he takes this attitude. He claims that if we are going to establish one station we should have two or three. Anybody acquainted with conditions on the Atlantic coast realizes the dangers to which shipping is exposed and I am sure that if the minister and the deputy minister had taken the interest in this matter that they should have taken in the past, they also would be cognizant of the situation at Scatarie island and would have taken steps to provide the remedy. The cost of giving them at least some form of life-saving station would not amount to more than $25,000, and I claim that Scatarie island is second only to Sable

Supply-Marine and Fisheries

island in being the most dangerous point on the north Atlantic coast. During the last five years there has not been a year without at least twenty-five or thirty lives having been exposed on that coast. Last year thirty lives were lost off that very island and the previous year five lives were lost. During the last five years not one year has passed without four or five lives being lost. These men were not all Canadians, it is true, but if the government takes the attitude it does, I cannot see how we are going to relieve the existing situation. We spend enormous sums of money for other things, but we cannot find a dollar to spend for the saving of human life. Would it not be better for the department and the deputy minister to take the money they are now spending in other directions and utilize it for the establishment of a proper life-saving station at Scatarie island? It is my intention to bring this matter up on every occasion and I am going to press for it because I consider it essential in the interest of the country. It is one of the most humane things we can do. The poor sailor who goes out to sea is risking his life at all times, and it should be our duty to furnish him with every possible safeguard and to do everything we can to minimize the risks of his hazardous calling.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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CON

Finlay MacDonald

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacDONALD (Cape Breton South):

I wish to join with the hon. member for Richmond-West Cape Breton in impressing upon the minister the necessity of some improvement in the life-saving service at Scatarie island. It does not form part of my constituency, but it is perhaps the most dangerous point on the Atlantic coast and the equipment there now is totally inadequate. It would not cost anything like a million dollars to equip the station properly. If the minister secured a vote of $10,000 or $15,000 for a proper boat there, that would fulfil the requirements at the present time, but something is urgently needed at that point.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MARINE AND FISHERIES
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June 6, 1929