May 31, 1929

LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

This is the same vote as last year. Mr. Weller entered the service of the department in 1883 as an engineer in canal construction and operation. In 1900 he was appointed superintending engineer of the Welland canal, which office he held till 1912 when he was appointed engineer in charge of survey and design of construction of the then proposed new Welland ship canal. He remained in charge of the work till 1917, when it was closed down owing to the war, and his services were dispensed with. From January, 1919, to March, 1927, the services of Mr. Weller were retained in a consulting capacity because of his early connection with the development of the Welland canal plans. He is now retired, and in view of his services it was thought that $3,500 was not an unreasonable allowance to make. He is a very old man and has no other pension rights whatever.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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Item agreed to. PUBLIC WORKS Public Works-Miscellaneous- Accounts branch-salaries of agents, clerks, travelling and contingent expenses of outside service, $25,000. Architectural branch-salaries of architects, clerks of works, inspectors, draftsmen, clerks, messengers of outside service, $83,000. Engineering branch-salaries of engineers, inspectors, superintendents, draftsmen, clerks and messengers of outside service, $495,000. For operation and maintenance of inspection boats, $20,000. Maintenance and operation of water storage dams on Ottawa river and tributaries, surveys in connection therewith, and settlement of land damages, $50,000. National Gallery of Canada, $130,000. National Monument on Connaught place, $75,- 000. River gauging and metering, $30,000. Surveys and inspections, $120,000. Balance of expenditure for works already authorized for which the appropriations may be insufficient provided the amount for any one does not exceed $200, $5,000. Compassionate allowance to Alphonsine Thi-bault. widow of the late Paul Thibault, foremail at Bic, P.Q., who was fatally injured by an accident while on duty, $3,355.-Total, $1,036,355.


LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

This is the vote which we had reached last evening when, we stopped. I want to hand to my hon. friend from Van-couver-Burrard (Mr. Clark) the statement which I promised him yesterday with regard to the total expenditure up to date on New Edinburgh mills. That includes everything. The net total for the acquisition of the property and the fitting pp of the buildings includes $36,047.94 expended on alterations, heating and electric fittings, and the shop that is at present being fitted up for the research council.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

May we have that statement put on Hansard?

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

\ es. The statement is as follows:

New Edinburgh Mills Property Cost of Acquirement-

Purchase price from Gatineau

Power Co. Ltd $525,000 00

Purchase price, small lot from

Mrs. M. D. Cranston 8,250 00

Survey, recoupment to Gatineau Co. of outlay for taxes etc., etc. 6,998 99

T ,, 540,248 99

Less old machinery sold from mill 1,002 39

Net total acquirement of property. $539,246 60

Fitting up buildings on Green Island for Dominion Bureau of Statistics-

Cost of alterations and sundry permanent, heating and electric fittings 73,720 07

Fitting up buildings on John St. for national research laboratory-

Cost of alterations and sundry permanent, heating and electric fittings

36,047 94Grand total of expenditure upon acquirement and immovable improvements to these properties to date $649,014 61

My hon. friend from Red Deer (Mr. Speak-man) asked for a statement of the National Art Gallery purchases. I have had a statement copied, which I will hand to my hon. friend. I 'have also had prepared for him, and will hand to him-which is perhaps the most convenient way for him to get it-the annual report of the National Gallery for 1926-27, and also for 1927-28, and the catalogue. I desire to state with regard to the pictures to which my hon. friend from Vancouver-ilurrard, the hon. member for Kingston and the member for Muskoka referred, that I had hoped last night before the discussion ended to be able to give them the information they asked for. Some of the staff got in touch with the director and asked

Supply-Public Works

whether he could give any information with regard to the whereabouts of these three pictures. Unfortunately he was not able to do this offhand with any degree of definiteness. There aire in the gallery about 6,000 pictures which are exhibited at various points throughout Canada, being lent to local galleries, and it is difficult for even the director to be able to say offhand just where these particular pictures are.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

All he can say is, they

are not here.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

He cannot say even that

without checking it up. However, he gave me a statement this morning with regard to the three pictures referred to. I 'have the following memorandum with regard to these portraits:

Lord Byng: This portrait by John Sargent belongs to the national gallery collection and not the Canadian war memorials and was purchased in 1925 from the national gallery vote. It has been hanging in the collection ever since and is hanging now on floor No. 2.

General Currie: This portrait by Orpen belongs to the Canadian war memorials collection. It has hung temporarily in the national gallery at various times and is at present on loan to His Excellency the Governor General, at government house.

General Lipsett: This portrait, also by Orpen, belongs to the Canadian %var memorials. It has been exhibited temporarily in the national gallery at various times.

It was withdrawn first for loan, at the urgent request of the commandant, to the Royal Military College, Kingston.

Later it was again lent to Sir William Orpen for the purpose of making a replica for presentation to General Lipsett's native^ town. Merthyr Tydfil, at the request of that city. It has now been returned and. pending the usual rearrangement of the exhibition in the national gallery it is being kept with the rest of the Canadian war memorials collection in the new fireproof storage space in the auditorium building.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

Since what date has the Sargent picture been hanging?

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

Since it was purchased.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

I made a very careful

search a few weeks ago and asked1 particularly for it but I could not find it.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

I have given my hon.

friend the statement submitted to me by the director and I take it to be correct.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

What jurisdiction has the

director of the gallery over the war memorial pictures?

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

The national gallery has

been the custodian of the Canadian war memorials since 1919. The national gallery has exhibited them temporarily twice and

they have also been exhibited twice in Montreal and Toronto during that time. The whole collection consists of 360 paintings and sculptures and prints, and it would be impossible to exhibit them permanently in the national gallery for want of space. The national gallery, out of its own fund, has paid for necessary restoration work and upon its representations to the government last year, better and more perfectly fireproof storage was secured for them in the auditorium building. The collection is there now waiting for the building of a new national gallery which it is expected will include a special wing devoted to them. The trustees of the national gallery have never ceased to urge in every annual report and through every other possible means the necessity of providing a permanent and public home for the Canadian war memorials.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

What proportion of this year's vote will be expended on new pictures?

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

The sum of $85,000.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

Does the minister think

he is justified in purchasing new pictures when we have nowhere to hang them?

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. ELLIOTT:

These picutres that are

being purchased are by noted artists and include what are considered by the trustees of the gallery to be works of special merit which they should obtain. Not only arethey exhibited in the gallery, as far as it is possible to display them, but part of thescheme is to lend them to various local

organizations from one end of the country to the other. They are kept on exhibition practically all the time in one place or another.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

I cannot possibly understand why these war memorial pictures should be locked up in basements. Why is it necessary that portraits of men like General Lipsett should be stored in some basement in the city of Ottawa? Why should not such a portrait be hanging in the gallery? From personal observation I know that there are in the gallery things which I at any rate consider absurdities when compared with such portraits. If the minister will visit the gallery he will see there pictures of ducks and bunches of roses and geese and numerous landscape scenes, as well as George Washington, who, it is true, was a great character and all that. But why should there not be some portraits of our own national characters? I cannot understand a policy that excludes from the gallery the portraits of men who have made history for our country, while

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we hang there things that are really of no interest to the public. I should like to know from the minister who the men are that administer the gallery.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mu. ELLIOTT:

The present board of

trustees comprises Mr. Harry Southam, of the city of Ottawa, the chairman, who is replacing the late Doctor F. J. Shepherd of the city of Montreal. The other trustees are Mr. Norman MacKenzie of Regina, Hon. Vincent Massey, and Mr. J. O. Marchand, architect, of Montreal, with Doctor Mac-Tavish of the Civil Service Commission.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

I hope the minister will

direct the attention of these gentlemen to the remarks that have been made on this subject and suggest that cons:deration be given to hanging some Canadian portraits in the gallery. I am quite sure lhat if some of these men will visit the gallery they will be able to eliminate some of the roses, some of the fruit and perhaps some of the foreign gentlemen and consider making space for the portraits of our own men who have made history for this country, and which are now buried in seme of the basements.

Topic:   $10,000 17,500 6.500 3.000 4,200 4,750 4.500 3.000 10.000 6.000 $ 69,450 85.000 40.000 20,500 1,200 1,000 725 2.000 53.000 204,725 $274,175 REVISED EDITION
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May 31, 1929