May 8, 1928

CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

After the minister and his

department had recommended a man for a particular position and had given him any examination they might prescribe, the minister would not expect the Civil Service Commission to refuse to make the appointment.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

I hope not, because I rather

expect the commission would be willing to co-operate with the Department of National Revenue.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

Then why bring the Civil

Service Commission in at all? Does it not seem a perfect blind to mention the Civil Service Commission?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

For the very reason I gave before. It should not, I would say personally, be necessary, but the intention is to put a brake, if you like, on any minister who might abuse the power that would otherwise be given to him. If the Civil Service Commission thinks it is not sufficient, I would be willing to cut that out.

National Revenue Act

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

There are two matters

to be dealt with. The minister has dealt with the one, but not with the other. The first relates to the selection of the individual; the second relates to the salary or compensation he is to be paid. With respect to the first, the minister should not endeavour to throw this smoke screen before the public. The civil servants of this country are very greatly concerned about this matter, and merely because, I suppose, I am in the position I am, I receive telegrams and letters from civil servants from Vancouver to Nova Scotia.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

So do I.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Doubtless the minister

has received them. The press of the country has referred to the matter in terms, we will say, of delicate criticism, most of them not believing that it would be possible for the minister to revert to the old system of things.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

It is not possible.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Let us see what it means in essence. We must not deal with the present incumbent of the office, but we must deal with the office. It is a mistake to assume that because the Hon. William Euler is Minister of National Revenue, there will always be a William Euler in that office, or that he is a particular person that must be selected for some peculiar kind of treatment from this house. An efficient and effective minister we will say he is, for the . sake of argument-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh!

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

We will assume that for the sake of the argument, although I think before this house rises we will perhaps have to revise our assumption. Let us go a step further. We are now dealing with the office, not the individual, and the office proposes to make a recommendation to the Civil Service Commission for the appointment of given individuals to given posts. That is what is proposed. In other words, whatever pressure may be brought to bear upon the Minister of National Revenue, whoever he may be, that pressure, political,- friendly, family, and every other kind in the world, may succeed in 'inducing the minister, not this minister per-adventure, but a minister, to recommend to the commission the appointment of a particular person. You cannot get away from that. Then why ask the Civil Service Commission to be thus dragged in the mire by making it appear that they are going to appoint somebody that they have no power to

appoint? They have to appoint the man the minister recommends or nobody at all. Then why drag the Civil Service Commission in? It is nothing but a smoke screen to make the people of this country believe that you are still retaining the Civil Service Commission in all its integrity, while as a matter of fact you are flaunting it and holding it up to scorn before the public. You simply write to the Civil Service Commission. "Dear Sirs: Enclosed please find the name of the

gentleman we desire to have appointed as appraiser." The days go by and the Civil Service Commission find that he is not the man for the job, and they do not make the appointment. Then the minister goes to the governor in council and makes the appointment.

I come to the next point, the question of salary. As the matter now stands, the civil servants have graded salaries, and there is nothing they are more jealous about than their rights with respect to their salaries. This resolution proposes to appoint persons who will be appraisers not appointed by the Civil Service Commission, and receiving salaries in the discretion of the governor in council.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

May I correct my hon.

friend?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

The resolution says

"such salaries or remuneration as may be determined by the governor in council."

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

Exactly, that is what the

resolution says, but I have apologised already for the resolution. The bill does not carry out that idea. It reads:

The officer so appointed by the commission or by the governor in council, as the case may be, shall be paid such salary or remuneration in accordance with the civil service regulations as may be determined by the commission or the governor in council respectively.

My hon. friend will, note that it says, "in accordance with the civil service regulations."

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That meets the difficulties I was pointing out to the minister. In other words, instead of the governor in council fixing the salaries, they are to be fixed by the Civil Service Commission. The resolution, of course, says just the opposite. Perhaps the better way for us to proceed would be to have the resolution reported and the bill given its first and second readings, so that with the bill in our hands we may study what the new provisions are as distinguished from the resolution.

* National Revenue Act

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

That is exactly the suggestion I desire to make. Perhaps the committee might allow the resolution to be reported, and then the bill can be introduced and read a second time, and the whole matter be discussed in committee.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Without committing ourselves on this side of the house to any ac-aceptance of principle.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

Quite so.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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UFA

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. KENNEDY:

What is to prevent the Civil Service Commission having access to the same information which is available to the minister in preparing his recommendations in regard to the qualifications of any individual for the position of appraiser?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
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LIB

William Daum Euler (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

The commission cannot possibly have the same knowledge, because they cannot possibly have that knowledge in themselves. The men who will make the selection as provided for in the bill will be men who have personal knowledge of those whom they propose to be appointed as appraisers, and that is knowledge which no commission could possibly have.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   APPOINTMENT AND SALARIES OF OFFICERS
Permalink

May 8, 1928