April 10, 1928

?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Not to-night.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

Why not? It is the same principle. That applies to all the departments, and I suggest that if the minister is sincere in his desire to pass this resolution, these words should be dropped. He should also justify the amalgamation of these two departments by showing that some economy will be effected and that greater efficiency will result.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

*Mr. KING (Kootenay):

The question of the name is open for discussion, and as I said before it is my desire to secure a name which will be suitable and which will properly indicate the functions of these two departments. I wish now to establish the principle of amalgamation. In regard to economies, these will result very considerably in the work of administration. It is true that the estimates which have been tabled do not show these economies, because the estimates were made up prior to the work of reorganization and amalgamation. That will be made plain when the estimates come up, and possibly on the second reading of this bill.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

Robert James Manion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

Does the minister suggest that when the estimates are being dealt with some reductions will be made?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Yes, if the house thinks it wise; as yet we do not know what the economies will be, because the reorganization is not complete. We know that a considerable saving will be made in our audit branch, but a reorganization of this character

National Health and Veterans' Welfare

takes a very considerable time. If it is the desire of the committee we might amend the resolution by striking out the words "National Health and Veterans' Welfare" for the present, and when the bill is in committee a name will be substituted which we trust will meet with the approval of members on both sides. I think we are all in agreement that if we accept the principle of amalgamation it is desirable to secure a name which will appeal to those interested in the work to be done.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

Thomas Erlin Kaiser

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. KAISER:

I have every sympathy with any and every effort put forth by the Dominion of Canada to make the path of our returned soldiers easier, yet I think that the government should begin to see the importance of national health. During the greater part of my life I have been connected with public health work, and I claim that our country has not even a vision of what can be done by an aggressive, well conducted and well versed department of health. Canada to-day spends about 35 cents per capita on public health, while in order to have efficient service an expenditure of about $2.50 per capita is required. That simply shows the great gap between what we are endeavouring to do now and what might be done. I have been very much impressed by the remarks with regard to the recent epidemic in the city of Montreal. If the Dominion government had had a means of marshalling the forces of the country to grapple with that epidemic, the very serious situation which existed never would have come about. We should have a department of epidemiology. The infant mortality and maternal deaths in this country are simply startling; there is sufficient work in either of these branches of the work to call for aggressive action. I would prefer to see the Department of Health absolutely separate, to take over the matter of national health in line with what other countries are doing. I think there is sufficient work in this Dominion to keep that department busy if they would only buckle down to it.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

John Wesley Edwards

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. EDWARDS (Frontenac):

I am glad

the minister has agreed to leave out for the present the suggested name of this new department, because it does not ask us who vote for the legislation to commit ourselves to that name as would be the case otherwise. The objections which have been raised are very strong; at all events, they appeal to me as being such, but I am not prepared' to accept the idea of amalgamation, and I wish to express my opposition to that. From the standpoint of the amount of money which necessarily must be expended in looking after the soldiers of this country and from the stand-56103-122

point of the number of individuals directly or indirectly involved, which would include the women and children connected with returned or disabled soldiers, this department should stand alone. It should be a separate department with a minister and a deputy minister of its own. Under this proposed resolution the deputy will be deputy minister of Health and deputy minister of Veterans' Welfare. As far as the deputy minister of Health is concerned I do not think we could do better than the gentleman who occupies that position at present; he is certainly a very competent man, a medical man as you would naturally expect. I do not wish to place any limitation on his ability; probably he would efficiently fill the position of deputy minister of Militia or deputy minister of Veterans' Welfare, but it does seem to me that he will be more at home and more in his element while acting as deputy minister of Health than he would be in acting as deputy minister of Veterans' Welfare.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Why?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

John Wesley Edwards

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. EDWARDS (Frontenac):

For very

obvious reasons. He has been trained along medical lines, and for that reason is a very competent deputy minister of Health.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Does my hon.

friend know that the deputy minister has had very considerable war experience and military training?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

John Wesley Edwards

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. EDWARDS (Frontenac):

That may be, but he is not going to live forever; I suppose he has no eternal lease on life, and I am discussing the principle now. I am not saying that the present deputy minister of Health might not make a competent deputy minister of Veterans' Welfare, but I do say that a man whose whole training has been along medical lines would be more in his element in directing the affairs of the Department of Health, while a man who has had experience along military lines or who had been closely identified with soldier problems would be more at home as deputy minister of Soldiers' Civil Re-establishment. If there are any individuals in the Dominion of Canada who are entitled to special consideration it is those who fought and were disabled in the war. I have no objection to the gentleman who occupies the position of Minister of Health also bearing the title of Minister of Soldiers' Civil Re-establishment, but I do say there should be two distinct and separate departments, one dealing with soldier problems and one with health, each with a deputy minister. We owe that to the men who have sacrificed so much, and to their dependants,

1916 COMMONS

National Health and Veterans' Welfare

who in many cases must be considered indirectly as wards of the nation. I merely wish to say that while the minister apparently thinks we should adopt the idea of amalgamation, I wish to express my opposition to the idea. I do not think it is a wise one. There should be two distinct departments, and there should be a deputy minister for soldiers' problems and a deputy minister of Health as well.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

George Reginald Geary

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GEARY:

I suppose the question will be open later?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Yes. The resolution will bring in a bill, and the principle of the bill will be under discussion.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Before we further consider the suggestion of the name, I wonder what is the real reason for the change? I do not think we have got it from the minister. Has the minister, for example, any reports that there will be better service, greater consideration given to that which is by all odds the more important department of the two, that of soldiers' re-establishment, which spends infinitely more money and requires infinitely more time than the activities which can be followed by a Dominion department of health? If we have any such reports, I think we should know what they are and who make them. At all events, at some considerable expense to the department of reestablishment there has been an investigation or a series of investigations made, I think, quite near where I come from, West York, and we have the Hunter and McGregor combination working there. Have they brought in recommendations for this?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Not affecting this proposal.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Have they made any recommendations showing how better service can be given to the returned soldiers?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

No.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Will the minister let us have any reports there may be showing that there will be better service to the soldiers?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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?

John Warwick King

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

There was a report a short time ago showing the nature of the work of the department. Anyone taking the time to read that report will realize that ninety to ninety-five per cent of the work of that department is health work. Then there was an investigation made some time ago by Mr. G. W. Scott, submitted on the 29th of October, in which he deals with the proposed amalgamation, and it is shown in that

*Mr. J. W. Edwards.]

report that there would be an advantage in the matter of economy and in the matter of efficiency in the amalgamation proposed.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND VETERANS' WELFARE
Subtopic:   PROPOSED AMALGAMATION OF DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND SOLDIERS' CIVIL KE-ESTABLISH-MENT
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April 10, 1928