February 29, 1928

CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

Will the hon. member give the meaning of the word skelp, so that the house may understand the matter more clearly?

Mr. CANTLEY': Skelp is the trade name given iby steel and pipe makers to strips of steel intended to be rolled or drawn through dies in the forming of ordinary merchant pipe. If I want to produce pipe with an internal diameter of one inch, I purchase or roll, as the case may be, a bar of steel, say, one-eighth of an inch thick and say four inches wide. For larger pipes I roll the steel wider, and for still larger pipes wider still, and so on, using an increasingly heavier material. The

The Budget-Mr. Cantley

material may be rolled to the width and thickness suggested, or it may be rolled first in the form of sheet steel of the required thickness and afterwards sheared to the desired width. Material produced in either of these forms is known to the trade as steel skelp for pipe making. I am at present referring to an industry which is able to import skelp at a duty of 5 per cent while it is protected by a tariff ranging from 274 to 30 per cent. I contend that there is class discrimination in this matter, and I say this for the reason that if material of exactly the same dimensions is imported by the users of steel for any other purpose they pay $700 per ton under the general tariff, whereas the concern which is using it for the mSnufacture of pipe gets it at 5 per cent and enjoys a protection on his pipe by way of a duty of 274 to 30 per cent. The products of the furnaces, forges and mills in Germany, of all continental Europe, and the surplus of the United States, are in this case accorded equal treatment with the British product, the principle of preferential treatment being entirely ignored. The whole productive capacity of Great Britain, of Europe and of the United States is placed at the disposal of the merchant mill operator and the steel pipe producers of Montreal and elsewhere, and they are able to import steel billets and steel skelp at the lowest possible world's figure, assisted by ballast rates of freight, the product being admitted into Canada at a duty of 5 per cent, irrespective of any interests save their own. It would appear to be a matter of no concern to the Minister of Finance or to the government that our Nova Scotia coal miners are to-day idle, or that many of our blast furnaces, coal washeries, open hearth furnaces and the great steel producing plants, each unit costing millions of dollars, are silent, with thousands of former operatives idle. On the other hand, the pipe manufacturers, whose raw material is imported skelp and whose operations are often carried on in a building little more than a glorified shed, equipped with a few small heal'-;:-furnaces possibly using waste gas from the city gas works and requiring only the simplest type of machinery, enjoy a protection of 30 per cent under the general tariff and 274 per cent under the intermediate tariff. This

Persons

employed

Blast furnaces and steel mills 13,874

Subsidiary plants 101,887

merchant pipe so produced and so protected by the tariff finds itself in the centre of the consuming area of Canada and in the chief distributing centres of this country with a consequent low distribution cost.

The whole tariff history of the world cannot supply such concrete evidence of the total lack of a rational tariff policy or a more unfair, unjust and illogical application of the taxing powers resting in the Minister of Finance. . I invite the minister to consider all the facts relative to item 383; his commissioner of taxation has been thoroughly acquainted with the situation for a long time, and can readily give him all necessary information.

In 1920 the investment in primary iron and steel plants in the Dominion amounted to $120,000,000 in round figures, or 18 per cent of the total manufacturing investment of Canada; by 1926 this had fallen to about $88,000,000. or 144 per cent of our total manufacturing investment. In 1920 the value of our primary iron and steel products was about $139,000,000, or 21 per cent of the entire manufacturing production for that year, while during the three years 1924, *1925 and 1926 the value of these primary iron and steel products had fallen to an average of less than $37,000,000, or a drop of 70 per cent. To put it in another way, the value of the primary products of iron and steel in 1926 was only 8i per cent of the entire industrial production of this country. Looking at it from still another point of view, about 92 per cent of the value of the secondary iron and steel products of Canada is based on the fabrication of raw forms of iron and steel imported into this country, -while some of these secondary products enjoy the highest rates of duty imposed by our tariff.

The fundamental value of this great Canadian industry lies in the pig iron and steel produced; in other words the products of our blast furnaces, open hearth plants and rolling mills which should and1 under a properly graded tariff would provide the raw material for the secondary metal industries. I should like at this point to place on record the relative positions of the primary and secondary divisions of the industry as shown by the operatives employed and the wages paid during the years 1920 and 1926. The figures are as follows:

1926

Wages and salaries paid

22.824,530

135,860,417

Persons

employed

6,014

75,400

Wages and salaries paid 8.934,536 125.229.867

The Budget-Mr. Cantley

As shown by these figures, the secondary plants are about holding their own with regard to earning power, but certainly this is not the case with the blast furnaces and rolling mills.

I invite the Minister of Labour to consider the fact that in 1913 Canada had nineteen blast furnace stacks in operation with only five idle, while to-day we have but four producing furnaces, with SO per cent of the investment and employment capacity of Canada's iron and steel industry idle and unremunerative. This has been the case for several years past, and the wages earned have been only 40 per cent of those earned six years before. Is not the Minister of Labour (Mr. Heenan), interested in that situation? Let the minister ask the people of Sydney Mines, Glace Bay, Sydney, New Glasgow and Trenton to give him the facts with regard to empty houses, municipal bank overdrafts, distress assistance and the emigration of thousands of our best artisans, and having done this, I ask him to impress upon the Minister of Finance the gravity of our position.

Then I would invite the government to consider the matter from another angle. In Nova Scotia we did all the pioneer working out of the intricate and difficult problems of the steel trade as it is now practised in this Dominion, and I would remind the house that pioneering in industry is expensive. The first open hearth steel plant in Canada was put into operation at New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, in 1882, when the Scotia Company, to give it the short local name, in August of that year made the first open hearth steel and poured the first steel ingot produced in Canada. Here I would like to pay a tribute to the courage, faith, indomitable energy and Scottish persistence of three men, all natives of New Glasgow, who were the real fathers of the steel trade in Canada. They successfully overcame all the pioneering difficulties which came up in the establishment of the steel industry based on the use of native ores, fluxes and fuel, aided wholly by native workers. I refer to the late Graham Fraser, George Forrest Mackay and Simon A. Fraser, men with whom it was my great privilege to be intimately associated over a long period of years.

The New Glasgow Iron, Coal and Railway Company, organized by Graham Fraser and some intimate friends in 1890, shipped abroad trial lots of Pictou coal. These were not hand samples, bag samples or ton lots, but consisted of some hundreds of tons. This coal was sent to the Westphalen or black country district of Germany, where exhaustive

washing and coking tests were carried ont. The knowledge thus gained enabled us to determine the type of washery and coke ovens best suited to our fuel conditions. This information was put into practical effect in 1891, at Ferroma in the county of Pictou, where the first commercial coal washer and also the first rectangular retort coke ovens designed to produce blast furnace coke from washed coal were built and put into successful operation. This coal washery and these ovens were the first of their type on the North American continent. Ten years later followed the great development at Sydney and Sydney Mines, where eight modern blast furnaces with coal washing and coke oven equipment and by-product plants were established. During the war these plants first produced the toluol which made possible our great contribution to the demands for explosives for our armies and those of our allies from 1915 until the end of the war. Connected with these blast furnace plants, situated one on each side of Sydney Harbour, are seventeen open hearth melting furnaces with capacities of fifty, seventy and one hundred tons, some of which are of the most modern design on this continent. Those at Sydney Mines are fitted with secondary plant for fluid compression of steel, where great hydraulic presses exert a pressure of 4,000 tons per square inch on the plastic steel contained in reinforced ingot moulds thus displacing the inert gases and consolidating the metal, eliminating blow holes and surface cracks, and ensuring a more homogeneous, better and safer material for railway car and locomotive axles and large marine forgings, giving to these a degree of safety and dependability not otherwise obtainable. This magnificent plant with its accompanying ore piers, coal washers, coke ovens and blast furnaces, and refractory brick works, representing an outlay of many millions of dollars, and half our coal mining capacity, is to-day all idle, with a consequent lack of employment, lessened purchasing power for our people, less traffic for our railways, and a loss of one-half the population from a town of 10,000 people boasting large brick public schools with modern public utilities of water, lighting, sewerage and tram car service. There, where formerly visible and tangible evidences of success, optimism and progress prevailed, depression, discontent and despair now exist, due, Mr. Speaker, to the fundamental change in the former tariff structure of this country. These changes at first were small, but were followed year by year by others, all of the same unpatriotic and fundamentally vicious type, and all gradually but surely producing their dire effects on the great basic industry

The Budget-Mr. Cantley

of Canada. This is the situation which now exists and which the Finance minister to-day refuses or neglects to remedy in the slightest degree. He fiddles with cotton thread's and offers our coal and steel workers duty free foreign woollen yarns with which to dam their mitts and moccasins, while they and the spinners of Canadian yams go idle and in want. And that, Mr. Speaker, is the sum total of the relief offered the coal and steel industries by the tariff changes which the Finance minister has just presented to the house.

The facts as to the position of the iron and steel industry, and the paralyzing effect of the tariff, discriminating sis it does against this Nova Scotian industry, were presented to the tariff advisory board on May 26, 1926, now nearly two years ago, but, so far nothing is known as to the action taken by the board or the advice given by them. Meanwhile, incalculable loss of capital and wages has resulted, population has declined, distress, disappointment and unrest have followed, and we are yet without even any suggestion of sympathy or practical help from the Finance minister or the government.

As to coal, I shall not delay the house with any lengthy reference to the coal mining industry of Nova Scotia, the main facts as to which have already been fully put before the house, but will merely say that that industry as now carried on in Canada does not provide the continuity of employment desirable and necessary to the well being of those employed in it, and a radical readjustment of our dealing with the industry is imperative.

I should like to draw the attention of the house to a considered statement made by the Dominion Bureau of Statistics at the suggestion of the royal commission on maritime disabilities, which directs attention to the intimate connection between the coal and steel industries and the population of Nova Scotia.

Coal mining, while carried on in Nova Scotia for more than a century, received its greatest stimulus when the steel industry was taken up, first at New Glasgow in 1882 and further extended in 1891, followed by a great advance in production in 1900, due to the construction of large iron and steel plants on both sides of Sydney Harbour.

The relative importance of Nova Scotia as a producer of coal and steel is shown by the fact that up to about 1880 virtually all the Canadian coal output came from Nova Scotia, and up to a still later date, or about 1895, virtually all the pig iron and steel produced in Canada was made in Nova Scotia. Now while the tendency of later years has been to'diminish the relative importance of Nova Scotia

as a factor in coal, iron and steel production in Canada, it cannot be forgotten that these allied and basic national industries first attained importance in Nova Scotia. It is the chief misfortune of that province to be overshadowed now by the more rapid, if more superficial, progress of central Canada, greatly due to unfair legislation.

The extent to which the Nova Scotia coal and steel industry has suffered may be gauged by constrasting the continuous increase in the coal output of the province for twenty years prior to the great war and the disappointingly opposite trend shown since the close of the war, which downward trend is largely a reflex of the difficulties attending steel manufacture in Nova Scotia, arising out of unsatisfactory and unfair tariff and railway freight conditions. Notwithstanding these discouraging features the striking fact is that the only local increase in population that has occurred in Nova Scotia since confederation was due to and associated wth the coal and steel industries.

The increase of population in the municipalities in which the coal and steel operations were carried on during the thirty years period between 1891 and 1921 was approximately 74,000 persons. The total increase of papulation in the province between these two decades was 73,000, namely, an increase from 450,000 to 523,000. I ask hon. members to note this: but for the increase in the coal and steel districts, there would have been no growth in the population of Nova Scotia during the past thirty or forty years. The growth of the coal industry has created several new towns and greatly enlarged others, something which has not occurred in connection with any other industry in that province. But the emigration from the maritime provinces, and especially, from Nova Scotia, has cancelled the combined increase due to immigration and natural increase. But for the employment and the creation and distribution of wealth connected with the coal and steel industries, with which undoubtedly is associated all the growth in population in Nova Scotia in forty years, the emigration from Nova Scotia would have been even greater than it has been. The census of 1931 in all probability will reveal a decline in the population of such towns as Sydney Mines, Sydney, New Glasgow, and Trenton, which have been affected by the lack of employment in the steel industry, and to a lesser but no means negligible extent in the coal industry. This fact makes still more understandable the real sense of fear that assails the Nova Scotian who witnesses the decline year by year of the steel industry and the effect of this decline upon the production of coal.

The Budget-Mr. Dunning

These startling facts should command the attention of our friends in other sections of the Dominion, and especially the government, a'nd my respected friend, the hon. Finance minister to whom I appeal primarily. It is to him we look for that succor and relief which he can give, and that without permanent injury to any legitimate Canadian industry.

We on this side of the house are sometimes taxed with failure to present any constructive suggestions although we indulge in criticism of the government. The Finance minister intimated that he would welcome any workable plan looking to provision for a sinking fund or any suggestion that will contribute to the earlier retirement of our national debt. I now venture to suggest that he impose a duty of a dollar and a half per ton on all coal and coke imported into Canada. That duty would not exceed, say, 20 to 25 per cent ad valorem, taking the average value of such fuel at the point of entry, and the total tax collected could be placed to the credit of a sinking fund for the extinguishing of the national debt. Were this done, the minister would be able to retire annually from that source say twenty-five or thirty millions of dollars of our outstanding national obligations. Of course the sum thus available for debt reduction would be gradually lessened in proportion as our domestic coal replaced imported fuel. A further great advantage would be to increase largely the range of consumption of Canadian coal, develop our own enormous western coal deposits, provide employment for a large mining population, go far to prevent seasonal unemployment in our eastern mining districts, and within a reasonable time put Canada in an independent position in the vital matter of fuel for both domestic and industrial purposes.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

James Layton Ralston (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. RALSTON:

How does my hon. friend

propose to keep out American coal and at the same time collect duties to be applied to the reduction of the national debt?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Thomas Cantley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CANTLEY:

I will answer that. I

have said that the amount available would gradually diminish as we replaced foreign coal with coal mined in Canada. That statement stands. Were this proposal adopted, the bonus on coke as provided by bill No. 123 of 1927, to encourage the production of domestic fuel from coal mined in Canada, might be abandoned1, it is of no practical use anyway. This suggested rate of duty may appear unduly burdensome to our Quebec and Ontario friends; but perhaps I may be permitted to remind them that they have been the greatest gainers by the protective policy of the past and such as yet

remains of that policy, and they have enjoyed a measure of prosperity not shared to anything like the same degree by the outlying provinces, either those of the east or those of the west. May not we, therefore, now appeal to their generosity and ask them to aid their less fortunate compatriots? Further, I know I can appeal to the deep and oft expressed sentiment of Quebec and Ontario as to Canadian unity and remind them that the consolidation of this great Dominion can be assured only by the removal of recognized handicaps and the providing of opportunity for each of the provinces to develop their natural resources and to provide adequate outlets for the energies of their people.

In conclusion I have just this to say:

In view of the past history of the coal, iron and steel industries of Nova Scotia, and the important contribution those industries and the men who created and developed them have made to the national and industrial life of Canada; in consideration of the gravity of the present position of those industries and those dependent on them, I again appeal to the Finance minister to amend his budget proposals now before the house and to give to these great Nova Scotia industries the protection and assistance necessary to their successful operation and due them by virtue of their primary importance to Canada, and of the prosperity and contentment of so large a portion of our maritime population, whose well being, I am convinced, is desired by our compatriots in every province of this Dominion.

Hon. CHARLES A. DUNNING (Minister of Railways and Canals): Mr. Speaker, I

am sure the hon. member for Pictou (Mr. Cantley) will forgive me if I do not follow his speech in detail. It is one of the same general type as the others that have come from members on that side of the house, and in my general discussion of the subject matter of one of them I need make reference but rarely to any individual speech, because they are practically all along the same line, dealing with the same matters in precisely the same way.

I think it is due to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb) to say that few men have been privileged to present to parliament a succession of such satisfactory budgets as those which have become known from coast to coast in Canada as "Robb" budgets. The man on the street finds it much easier to understand t'he mind of the present Minister of Finance and what the present Minister of Finance has for an objective, than is usually the case in connection with budget statements by min-

The Budget-Mr, Dunning

isters of finance. I need not refer to the respect in which the Minister of Finance is held in this house. Every member on both sides will agree that his genial personality and his fine treatment of all of us are universally admired and respected. We may not all agree with him. I usually do; members on the other side do not; but in the references which have been made to the minister personally, the respect in which he is held by all parties in this house is apparent.

In criticism of the budget there has been constant repetition from the other side of the house of the statement made by the hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George (Mr. Cahan), in opening the debate, regarding the treatment by the Minister of Finance of the debt due by the Canadian National Railways to the public. Other speakers, notably the hon. member for Leeds (Mr. Stewart), have developed the same theme along similar lines. In fact the hon. member for Leeds went so far as to say that the present Minister of Finance had adopted a different method from that of Mr. Fielding in the treatment of railway financing in the budget speech. Previously the accusation by the hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George was that a different method had been adopted from that followed by the Conservative government in 1921-22.

I shall endeavour to deal with both. The hon. member for Leeds showed that Mr. Fielding, in considering the decrease or increase of public debt, took into account cash advances to the railway. That I think is correct. May I point out to my hon. friends opposite that the present Minister of Finance does exactly the same thing, and has done exactly the same right along? The fact of the matter is that all the debt of the Canadian National Railways to the people of Canada is now treated as part of the net debt of the Dominion. AM the debt of the Canadian National Railways to the outside public is not and has never been treated as part of the net debt of Canada by any minister of finance or any government, and I propose later to discuss the reasons why.

What the hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George referred to the other day-and the hon. member for Leeds sought to support his contention-was the guarantees of the Dominion on railway account. The hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George said-and I think I am quoting him correctly-that on a proper basis of accounting the bond guarantees on railway account would have appeared as a direct liability of the government of Canada. Those, I think, are his exact words. That argument was not supported by the quotation from Mr. Fielding's budget speech of 1922-23

quoted by the hon. member for Leeds, because it so happened that in 1922-23 there were no railway guarantees and during the present fiscal year there have been no cash advances on railway account. The hon. member for Leeds therefore cannot properly compare the two cases. Let me for a moment quote the hon. member for Leeds. This is what he said:

The explanation is found in the fact that m the year 1923 an amendment to the Canadian National Railways Act was passed, permitting the government to guarantee securities issued on behalf of the system; and since that legislation was enacted the government have adopted the principle of guaranteeing the obligations of the national railways and then forgetting all about it when coming to deal with the liabilities of Canada at the end of the year.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

My hon. friend says

"hear, hear." Like the hon. member for Leeds; he seeks to make it appear that the present government, has altered the accounting method of the Department of Finance to enable it to make a better showing. That is what my hon. friend meant.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

The minister forgot about, it in presenting his budget.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

The Budget-Mr. Dunning

friend produced a certificate of one of the leading firms of chartered accountants in Canada to demonstrate that fact. Does anyone argue that the firm of P. S. Ross & Sons would give a certificate to that effect if it were not true. Does anyone argue that a firm of auditors of their reputation, a firm which I believe I am correct in saying has been engaged by the province of Nova Scotia, the province of New Brunswick, and many large business organizations in this country-

Topic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

Would the minister allow me a question?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

If the Speaker will allow me the time I take to answer it, yes.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

How much of that 1921 guarantee to which the minister refers was for refunding of existing obligations?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

I do not think I have the figures of refunding here but a large portion of the amount in any case was not for refunding, and if I follow my hon. friend from St. Lawrence-St. George correctly, he would not draw any distinction in his treatment whether it was for refunding or not. He would have it all charged to the net debt of Canada without any distinction whatsoever.

Now as to the propriety of the matter, for, after all, we are here considering the business of this country, is this a correct business procedure, no matter whether or not the Conservative government did it, no matter whether the Liberal government continued the practice? The question is, is it a sound and a correct procedure? I submit that it is a quite correct procedure on the ground, first, that it is a procedure which is followed by every single government in Canada with respect to similar undertakings. I would cite first the government of the province of Ontario, which has outstanding a very large amount, some fifty million dollars, of securities guaranteeing the financing of the Ontario Hydro-Electric Commission, a public-ownership utility analagous in some degree at least to our Canadian National Railways.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Edmond Baird Ryckman

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. RYCKMAN:

They have assets for every dollar of guarantees.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

There is the answer.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

I will come back to mj* hon. friend in a moment. I am not saying, not for one moment, that they do not have assets for every dollar of guarantees. The same method is followed with respect to every guarantee behind a public utility in every province in Canada.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

Would the minister permit me a question?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

I am ready to answer the question, if I am allowed the extra time.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
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LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

It is not within my privilege to extend the time of any hon. member. I have to see that the forty-minute rule is observed.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

If I am not to be allowed the time I hope my hon. friends will allow me to use my own forty minutes, not that I do not like interruptions.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Robert James Manion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

We were all up against that, you know.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Avery Dunning (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. DUNNING:

With regard to the Ontario hydro, exactly the same policy is followed by the government of the province of Ontario. The hydro debt guaranteed by .the government is not taken into account as part of the net debt of the province.

May I go further in connection with the province of Ontario and say that the example of the Dominion with respect to railway financing has been thought so highly of by the government of that province that a short time ago, in 1925, the Ontario government amended the Timiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway Act to give power to the government of Ontario to do with the Timiskaming and Northern Ontario railway exactly as we are doing with the Canadian National railway. Not only that, Mr. Speaker, but during the current year, $6,000,000 of Timiskaming and Northern Ontario railway bonds, the bonds of the provincial government-owned railway in the province of Ontario, have been issued by the Timiskaming and Northern Ontario railway commission and guaranteed by the province of Ontario.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
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February 29, 1928