April 8, 1927

LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

Those who are

most strenuously objecting to this proposal have evidently neglected to look into the act as carefully as they should or they would not make the statements we have been hearing. The law as it stands virtually creates the Immigration department a judicial body. It seems that citizens are to be punished by deportation without any preliminary trial.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That is not punishment.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

The ostensible purpose of the law is to enable the department to get rid of undesirables who come to our shores. The real effect, however, is, not to keep people from coming into the country, but, after they have been here one, five, ten,

2108 COMMONS

Immigration Act-Mr. Woodsworth

or even fifty years, to punish them by deportation, and that not for acts committed before they came to the country but for acts which they have committed or which they are alleged to have committed, or are even suspected of having committed in this country. I can understand the purpose of the Immigration Act to free this country from undesirables as they arrive here.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Hugh Guthrie (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GUTHRIE:

May I ask the hon. member a question? Would he be conent with the Immigration Act as it stood in 1910?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

It is two years since I have read these acts, and I am afraid I cannot recall the wording of the act of 1910.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Hugh Guthrie (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GUTHRIE:

I understand it is the only power under which deportation can be carried cut. If you pass this bill you take away all powers of deportation.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

The leader of the opposition is mistaken, and I would call to his attention the fact that it was the hon. member for West Calgary who last year suggested an amendment to the bill by which he thought to perfect it, which went further than the original draft act as presented by the minister. In the original bill there was some provision for deportation after trial for crimes of this character, but owing to the amendment introduced by the hon. member for West Calgary, that was modified and it was suggested that the whole clause should be eliminated; anyone who was present at the debate last year will recall the change.

My plea, Mr. Speaker, is that the Immigration Act quite rightly undertakes to stand guard at our gates and to say who may be admitted into Canada. If by any chance some get inside our gates who are undesirable I claim that the right still exists under the Immigration Act to deport them. It is perhaps quite in place that the department should have some act on the statute books to permit of such deportation. But so far as I have any influence, I refuse to allow an act to remain on the statute books which will use the departmental machinery for trying a man, and then deporting him without a fair jury trial; I think that is against all our best traditions. Personally I would not object to the country deporting a man who is undesirable; I will go that far with the hon. member for West Calgary. If a man is convicted of belonging to the undesirable classes; if he is convicted of acting against the best interests of Canada, I do not know that I would have any objection to deporting him.

It is not the deportation I object to, and I want to make that quite clear. What I do object to is the deportation without any other trial than that afforded by a departmental investigation.

Mr- HANSON: Would the hon. member

permit a question? Does he know that under the law of fhe United States on this very point it is always a departmental matter, and that it is the same in England and in every other civilized country? Where does he get the trial by jury on this particular point?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

I do not think

the American laws provide for the deportation of American citizens. Our law goes much beyond that; the United States will deport people who are not American citizens, but we undertake to deport Canadian citizens of other than Canadian birth, even those born in Great Britain. I happened to be born in Canada and am not liable under this act; the hon. member who asked the question (Mr. Hanson) is not liable under it, but there are some twenty or thirty men in this House who would come under it, and simply because I happened to be bom in Canada I would not insist upon the right of trial by jury for myself and refuse that right to my fellow Canadian citizens who were so unfortunate as to have been bom in the motherland. It seems to me that the least we can claim is the same rights for the British-born in this country as we claim for our own Canadian-born. We have heard much of equal status. This is equal status, if you like. It seems to me that the House has been labouring for several years under a misapprehension as to the real purposes for which the amendments have been sought. I confess that the bill is a very tricky one, and that it is only by carefully comparing the different sections that one can understand all its bearings. The outstanding feature before us, however, is whether or not British born and foreign born Canadian citizens will have the right to trial by the regular courts before they may be subject to deportation.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. H. H. STEVENS (Vancouver Centre):

Mr. Speaker, I desire-

Mr. C-. H. CAHAN (St Lawrence-St. George): Mr. Speaker, with regard to this

act there is a great deal to be said with respect to-

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I saw the hon. member

for Vancouver Centre (Mr. Stevens) first.

Immigration Act-Mr. Cahan

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

He gave way to me for a

few moments, since I am leaving the city shortly. There is a great deal to be said against deportation merely on suspicion. As it now stands, the act might very well be reconsidered, but to repeal it would leave this country in a very precarious condition.

In 1918 I happened to be Director of Public Safety for Canada, and I saw the entire workings of the American, British and Canadian secret services. In that year there were hundreds and thousands of dollars, and I would say up to a million and more, of Russian money brought into this country for the purpose of carrying on an agitation advocating assassination and everything else against which this act purports to enact measures for the protection of the country. I personally sent for the Russians, the communistic emissaries, and had several personal conversations with them, in which I told them very pilainly that any remedial measures which could be adopted by means of order in council at that time would be enacted to prevent their efforts from being carried to the treasonable extent to which they proposed to go. In a measure, by such intimidation we prevented them from carrying out certain measures which they were endeavouring to accomplish by the expenditure of hundreds of thousands of dollars in this country.

The act as it then stood did not go far enough to protect the interests of Canada at that time. I believe this act was drawn up the year after the close of the war; possibly it goes a little too far, but it should not be abrogated, because the same measures are being taken by soviet propaganda in this country to-day. We who know the inside of things are all aware of it; the Department of Justice of Canada must be well advised with regard to it. The efforts which were made in 1918 were successful to a certain extent, but following the close of the war similar efforts have been carried on and are being carried on throughout the length and breadth of this country. If I remember rightly in 1918 there were two secret printing presses in Montreal, one in Toronto, one in Hamilton, one in Port Arthur, one in Winnipeg and one in Vancouver.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LAB

Abraham Albert Heaps

Labour

Mr. HEAPS:

Secret printing presses?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

Secret printing presses.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LAB

Abraham Albert Heaps

Labour

Mr. HEAPS:

I can hardly credit that.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I am giving the facts as 1 knew them. When I left the Department of Justice I left there a pile of reports a yard high of the material they were printing, in

every known language in this country with the exception of French; I did not find any propaganda of that kind being printed in the French language.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTII:

Is the hon. gentleman aware that one was arrested for having printed a cook book in Ukrainian?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I don't know why he was arrested. I may say that during the time I was in the Department of Justice very few were arrested except for proper cause. As a matter of fact very few were arrested, because I found that an effective measure was to send for these men and talk to them, threaten them with deportation immediately if they did not stop their efforts. This country must protect itself against the advocacy of assassination or violence to the officials of the government of Canada. There must be some law whereby those foreigners who come in here-even if they come from Great Britain because of having been born there-sent in by the Soviet for the purpose of advocating such measures-can be prevented from carrying out their designs. This country must be in a position to protect itself. There is no doubt about that in my mind. If the present enactment goes too far or if it is unjust let us consider some amendment or modification of it. There are criticisms made made by the hon. member who preceded me which have effective force with regard to " suspicion " and " general repute ", and that sort of thing, but there must be a measure on the statute book of this country for the protection of government in Canada.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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LIB-PRO

Robert Forke (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal Progressive

Mr. FORKE:

We have other safeguards

under the law.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

Without that section, and

under the law as it stood before, you could not take effective measures to expel these people from the country. That was my experience. We tried every expedient possible and we were unable to take effective action under the law as it then stood. Why, Mr. Speaker, I had men come into my office in the Department of Justice and threaten-unless we carried out certain measures which they proposed-to put a sufficient number of men into the city of Ottawa to take possession of it within forty-eight hours, and they had behind them organizations which would have enabled them-in spite of the police force available here at that time-to take effective possession of this city and of the very seat of government.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

As they did in Winnipeg.

Immigration Act-Mr. Cahan

Topic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT
Subtopic:   REPEAL OP PROVISION FOR DEPORTATION OP CERTAIN CLASSES
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April 8, 1927