June 21, 1926

LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Yes, it is on

your file of Senate bills.

Topic:   CANADA EVIDENCE ACT AMENDMENT
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LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BOIVIN:

The bill is Bill X6 from the Senate. It received its third reading and1 was passed by the Senate on June 16th. It wai

Canada Evidence Act

introduced, explained!, and given its first reading in this House on Friday last. When we come to the second section of the bill I can repeat the explanation already given, if hon. members so desire.

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CON

Sydney Chilton Mewburn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEWBURN:

The bill1 is practically

the same as the English act.

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LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BOIVIN:

Absolutely the same, except for one word.

Section 1 agreed to.

On section 2-copies of entries.

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LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BOIVIN:

The entire bill is embodied in clause 2. It is copied from the English act, which is known in England as the Bankers' Books Evidence Act. The law in Canada has been that in all cases, especially in all criminal cases, the best possible proof available had to be produced, which meant that in all cases where bank books or bank records were required to be produced before the court the original books had to be brought, which caused a great deal of inconvenience to the banks. The bill is being passed at the request of the Canadian Bankers' Association with the object of enabling the bankers to produce duly certified extracts. The bill provides that the extracts shall either be certified to by the oath of the manager or accountant given in open court, or by an affidavit of these official's taken in the usual way. Hon. gentlemen wilil notice that there is a proviso guaranteeing all the rights of litigants and other parties concerned; subsection 3 provides that in any case where, for special cause, the court desires to order the production of the book itself the book shall be produced.

Topic:   CANADA EVIDENCE ACT AMENDMENT
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CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

Is the bill a fair transcript of the English act?

Topic:   CANADA EVIDENCE ACT AMENDMENT
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LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BOIVIN:

It is an absolute transcript except on two points; we have added the words "books or records." Banks sometimes keep their accounts in loose-leaf ledgers and in index cards, and the word "records" has been added to cover these two documents. No provision is made for costs as in the ^English act, because as my hon. friend knows tthe Canada Evidence Act applies to the administration of the Criminal Code and costs are not adjudged in criminal matters. Apart from that, this bill and the English act are identical. .

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Section agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed.


CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENT-POSSESSION OF WEAPONS


Hon. LUCIEN CANNON (Solicitor General) moved that the House go into committee on Bill No. 203, to amend certain provisions of the Criminal Code respecting the possession of weapons. On section 1-dangerous weapons.


CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Who will explain this bill? It certainly does not look like the short bill described by the Prime Minister.

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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

The measure looks rather bulky, but it includes both the bill and also the provisions of the Criminal Code which are being amended. The main object of the bill is to replace section 118 of the Criminal Code as it exists to-day. If the section is enacted as provided by this bill it will require a permit for the sale of weapons, the sale of ammunition, the importation of weapons and ammunition, and also the possession of weapons, firearms and ammunition. Secondly, the bill provides for the issuance of the permits by the Department of Justice or by officials designated by that department. Thirdly, it provides for an increase in the penalties imposed for infractions of the act. Certain objections were raised to the original bill as introduced, on the ground that considerable harm might result to that trade from the section covering or including the sporting rifle or arms used for sporting purposes. The act has been amended so that none of these are touched.

Mr. M.ANION: Is this bill now satisfactory to the dealers in sporting rifles and tha/ sort of thing? I have received a lot of protests from them, although I am not familiar with the question.

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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

I think these objections

have now been withdrawn in view of the amendment introduced. This afternoon I was put in touch with one gentleman who had certain objections to the definition of the word "ammunition," but II suggested an amendment which apparently met his wishes. When we come to that part of the bill I intend to move that amendment.

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CON

Robert James Manion

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MANION:

So far as the minister

understands, the objections raised by the hardware dealers and those who deal in the sale of weapons are met in the bill as it will be amended?

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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

Yes.

Criminal Code

Mr. M-cCLEN AGII AN: This ball was

objected to by the Hardware Merchants' Association of Canada. Their secretary appeared before the committee and had the clause relating to shot-guns removed. That took 'away a great deal of the objection that had been raised by the dealers. They do not objedt to the placing of restrictions upon the carrying of concealed weapons, 'but they showed the committee that Canada was a great sporting country, and to put any restrictions on the dealers and on the men using firearms and rifles would injure our tourist trade. But after this amendment had been made the original bill was introduced here, though I think it should have gone to the Private Bills committee in order that the matter might be thoroughly discussed. We have a provision with reference to ammunition which puts it back in its original shape, because when you buy ammunition for a rifle the same ammunition can be used in a revolver. The ammunition for a 22-calibre rifle can be used in a 22-calibre revolver, and the same with rifles and revolvers of other calibres; the ammunition is interchangeable. We claim you cannot make any amendment to that ammunition clause; the only thing is to withdraw it. Then you have your restriction against your firearms such as revolvers and pistols, but say nothing about ammunition, which, as I say, is interchangeable. A dealer is liable to a fine of

SI,000 and two years' imprisonment if he violates the provisions of a certain clause in the bill. There is also a clause under which a man who obtained a permit in Ottawa and went down to Rockland with the ammunition would be fined because he would be in the county of Russell. It is all mixed up. In the interests of sport in this country we should remove this restriction. The bill should have gone to the Private Bills committee where it could be discussed with more freedom.

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I have not heard a good reason why an innocent man can be sent to gaol for two years.

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LIB
CON
LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

The hon. member for Ottawa has just explained that in the original bill arms used for sporting purposes were apparently included, but the bill as drafted now, as my hon. friend will read-

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Your hon. friend has had no chance to read it.

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June 21, 1926