May 31, 1926

LIB
CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

You will find

it in your copy of the reprinted bill.

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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Hon. LUCIEN CANNON (Solicitor General) :

The bill has been reprinted, I have

a copy of the reprinted bill here. The measure was fully considered in committee, amendments to it were adopted, and its passage was unanimously approved by the committee. Furthermore, as my hon. friend from York-Sunbury said a minute ago, every possible interest has been looked after and safeguarded. No less than three departments of this government are to be consulted, and the International Joint Commission as well. Finally, after all these proceedings have been gone through, the Governor in Council has to give his approval.

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LIB

Jean George Robichaud

Liberal

Mr. J. G. ROBICHAUD (Gloucester):

Have arrangements been made for the Canadian fishermen interested to be heard by the Departments of Public Works and Marine and Fisheries before a decision is given with respect to this matter? If the fishermen are not so represented I am afraid the privileges which they have enjoyed for several generations past will be jeopardized. I believe the House should be very careful before giving this bill its final reading. Certainly provision should be made so that the fishermen concerned may be well represented before the different departments that have to do with this matter.

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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

The suggestion of my hon. friend is an appropriate one. I have no doubt at all that should any difficulty arise when the question comes up before the Minister of Marine and Fisheries, he will see to it that the fishing interests in New Brunswick are fully represented and heard, and that no decision will be rendered before the case has

Dexter P. Cooper Company

been explained to him. I am confident that no decision will be rendered by the various departments concerned until after the interests affected have been fully and completely -heard.

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IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN (South York):

Following up what the Minister of Finance has said, may I put this question: Supposing this company had incurred enormous expense in developing this tidal power, would they not insist then on being given an opportunity to export that power, and is the country protected in that respect?

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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

They cannot export power unless they are authorized to do so.

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IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

Yes, but they

may spend millions and then make a demand to be allowed to export power.

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LIB

Lucien Cannon (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

That is their own lookout. I have no doubt the company would not expend a very large amount unless they had the assurance that they would be in a position to exercise the powers conferred by this bill. However, as I have already said the company cannot do anything contrary to Canadian interests without first putting their .case fully before this government, and also before the International Joint Commission, I do not think any hon. member need be apprehensive that Canadian interests will not be fully protected.

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?

Mr. J. S. WOODS W O RTH@Winnipeg North Centre

There is. one point to which I should like to draw the attention of the House. Undoubtedly, it seems to me, the fishing and navigation rights, and the rights of riparian owners, are safeguarded in the bill. But there are certain new rights with regard to the development of water-powers by means of tidal waters that do not appear to me to be quite so fully guarded. With respect to these new rights, there has not as yet been any judicial expression.

In connection with water-powers developed on Dominion lands, it has been usual to have a clause inserted by which, after the expiration of a certain period, the Dominion government may expropriate the works and regard them as for the general welfare of Canada, provision being made, of course, for the reimbursement of the owners for the outlay they have made. It seems to me that there ought to be a clause along this line inserted in the present bill. We do not know as yet whether there is much prospect of this particular undertaking being a success. We have had no evidence of that from any engineer other than the promoters; but if the scheme of developing electricity

from tidal waters should prove feasible it may mean a great deal to the future of Canada. Now, I have no desire to enter into a controversy as to whether these waters come directly under provincial or under Dominion jurisdiction, the lawyer members of the committee were inclined to think they came under provincial jursidiction; but I would submit, as a layman, that already the Dominion has certain rights in these waters. The navigation rights of the Dominion are admitted, the fishing rights of the Dominion are admitted, and why should not the Dominion also claim rights with regard to the generation of power. A new right is being created as to which there has been no definite allocation, and I should like to see inserted a clause to the following effect:

The property in and the right to the use of all tidal water ipowers situated within the Dominion of Canada are hereby declared to be vested in and shall remain in the crown; and every undertaking hereunder is hereby declared to be a work for the general advantage of Canada.

Unless there is some real objection to this being inserted, I should like to have it adopted as an amendment to the bill-if we have the right to do that in this House. It seems to me that something of the kind is necessary at this stage to safeguard the. rights of the people of Canada.

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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

I rise to a point of order. The amendment is out of order, no notice having been given of it.

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LIB

William Duff (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER:

The point of

order is well taken. The amendment should be referred back to the committee and then notice of it given. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

No, No.

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LIB

William Duff (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER:

Those in favour of the third reading of this bill will please say "aye."

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PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. E. J. GARLAND (Bow River):

In

order that the amendment which the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre has submitted may be duly considered I would move the the bill be referred back to committee for the purpose of amending it in the manner referred to.

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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

I doubt very much if the

hon. member for Bow River knows what the amendment really is. I could not grasp its purpose while the mover was reading it, but I have an idea that the hon. gentleman was advancing a principle that the committee has already passed upon, namely, that the gov-

Dexter P. Cooper Company

eminent should have the right to take over this proposition at any time. I do not see that any good purpose can be served by the amendment.

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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Hon. Mr. STEWART:

Is my hon. friend

right about that? Is the principle not rather that the control of the power right should be in the hands of the federal authorities rather than in those of the province? If I am wrong I should like to be corrected?

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

It is in the

hands of the provincial authorities now, is it not?

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?

Mr. J. S. WOODS W O RTH@Winnipeg North Centre

Perhaps if the hon. gentleman did not hear me, although I thought I was speaking loud enough to be heard, I may repeat the wording of the resolution. I said that I was not trying to raise the issue as between the province and the Dominion, but I thought that we as representing the people of the Dominion have a right to safeguard the public interest. This follows pretty much the wording of the act with regard to water-powers developed on Dominion lands:

The property in and the right to the use of all tidal water-powers situated within the Dominion of Canada are hereby declared to be vested in and shall remain in the crown; and every undertaking hereunder ds hereby declared to be a work for the general advantage of Canada.

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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

To what clause is that

amendment moved?

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May 31, 1926