May 3, 1926

CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I do not know, but I say

Henry Ford has it entirely in his hands to fix the price.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Thomas Erlin Kaiser

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. KAISER:

What did the Belgians do

in the matter of glass?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I have a dozen such cases

before me if it were necessary to go into them, but I will take only one. Before the war Germany was producing dyes and selling them in the United States at certain prices per pound. The United States put up a tariff and thereby encouraged the domestic manufacture of dyes. The Germans thereupon lowered their price to such a level that it enabled them to overcome the American tariff and destroy the American dye factories. As soon as that was done they not only raised their price to the old level but added a fraction to make up for the profits they had lost while the American factories were functioning Take any similar case and you will find it so.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

John Power Howden

Liberal

Mr. HOWDEN:

Does the hon. gentleman

suggest that the American manufacturers would demand a greater price from Canadians than from their own people?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I have not the facts, but I have from as trustworthy authority as that of hon. gentlemen opposite with regard to many of the statements they made about the Ford car that the Ford company does discriminate sometimes as between different cities and districts. Naturally, you say, cost of transportation may account for this, but I believe there is that discrimination. And if you take down the tariff I can see no reason why, so far as the Ford car is concerned, the price should not be fixed in Canada at any figure Henry Ford sees fit to demand.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

Cannot we apply the hon.

gentleman's business tax in that case?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

I do not see how you could. Mr. POWER: Apply the sales tax here.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

Then you would pay it.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles Gavan Power

Liberal

Mr. POWER:

You would pay it, anyway.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

Now, my suggestion is that we should not admit we are so wanting in intelligence as not to be able to devise ways and means for putting an end to profiteering without burning down our industrial establishments.

As it is nearing eleven o'clock and I wisn to conclude, let me say I regard it as absolutely necessary for the proper development of our industrial life that we should have a wise and vigorous government policy that persists in the single aim, year in and year out, through one administration after the other, no matter what political party may command a majority in this House-the single aim of maintaining a stable tariff which is not subject to sudden change for the pur-

The Budget-Mr. Cahan

pose of helping the friends of one political party or of injuring the friends of another political party; a policy which is not subject to change except after due inquiry and careful consideration and a report to the government and to this House in justification of the change proposed. The changes which have been made under present conditions have unsettled the whole country. Gentlemen opposite may smile and think they are proposing something which is accepted generally from one end of the country to the other. That is not so. The cheerful smile which pervaded their countenances on the day the Minister of Finance announced his budget has entirely disappeared-

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

When?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

From the faces of hon. gentlemen opposite.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
?

An hon. MEMBER:

Not from these faces.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Charles Hazlitt Cahan

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAHAN:

Furthermore, it has created throughout the country such lack of faith in the pledged word of honour of hon. gentlemen opposite, that if they went to the country tomorrow or a week hence, so long as the memory of that breach of faith is in the minds of the electorate, they could not succeed in retaining two-thirds of the support which they now have in this House.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles Edward Bothwell

Liberal

Mr. C. E. BOTHWELL (Swift Current) :

Mr. Speaker, after listening to the various speeches on the budget it would almost appear that there was nothing further to be said, but every hon. member seems to be able to rarse something new. I intend for a few minutes to speak in the hope that I may be able to disabuse the minds of some hon. gentlemen of the wrong impressions that have been conveyed to them.

Let me say, though, that I have no doubt hon. members on both sides of the House are anxious only to assist in legislation that will be in the interests of Canada as a whole. We cannot all see things alike, and we are all prone to take a different view of the same set of facts. But we do hope that a thorough discussion of any subject may enable us to arrive at a conclusion that will give us a proper solution of our difficulties. We are somewhat prone to stress the importance of our own constituency or our own province, but I think we all realize that no matter what part of Canada we come from we all belong to this great Dominion and must assist m legislation which is in the interests of the country as a whole.

It must be a matter of congratulation to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb)-indeed, to everyone-to see that we are at last emerging to some degree from the clouds of debt with which we have been surrounded. We know the Great war entailed a tremendous expense, and that we had to assume tremendous obligations after the war during the period of reconstruction. An enormous debt was then piled up, and it is now our duty to see that debt liquidated. Our favourable position, as announced by the Minister of Finance in his budget address, is to no small extent resultant from the bounteous crops with which we have been favoured for the past two years, but our bounteous harvests are not sufficient without other means by which use can be made of them. The Minister of Finance was able to announce that Canada's favourable financial position is due in part to the trade treaties into which Canada has entered. Those treaties, together with the wonderful harvests, have enabled us to bring forward the budget which was presented the other day.

Since this session opened I have at times been alarmed by the statements made from opposition benches as to the dire straits in which Canada found itself. During the early days of the session particularly, we were almost convinced that we were on the verge of bankruptcy; from what various hon. members opposite said we might almost have thought our own conclusions wrong. We had been led to believe that Canada was in a fairly prosperous position, judging from newspaper reports, statements of financial institutions, market reports of various kinds and agricultural conditions generally. Imagine then, how we looked on the situation when we heard what hon. members had to say in this House. We were also surprised to learn, coming from a province which has been developing its dairy industry, that the dairy and poultry industries were being destroyed by the Australian treaty; we could scarcely believe it. I believe that suggestion has been dissipated by the speeches since made in this House, and I do not intend to deal with that question. We were also surprised to learn, from the speeches of hon. members opposite, that there was no legislative programme in favour of the farmers of Canada; now we hear that the legislative programme is all in favour of the farmers of western Canada.

The Speech from the Throne held out hopes of a legislative programme in the in terests of Canada from shore to shore. It is true that Maritime conditions were such as to make it a difficult matter for any government to bring down legislation which would satisfy the people of the Maritimes. I have listene 1

The Budget-Mr. Bothwell

to the speeches in this House dealing with Maritime rights, and I must confess that I do not yet know definitely just what Maritime rights are, nor do I know what legislation the Maritime righters require in order to have their claims satisfied. We are told of promises made when the Maritime provinces entered confederation; those promises, . so far as I know, have been fulfilled. Then we are told of understandings reached between various parts of Canada at that time, and judging from some of the speeches there were some such understandings. If it is possible for the people of Canada to carry out not only those promises but the understandings as well, that should be done, but I believe we will know '' at those understandings and rights are **' ugii the commission appointed to inquire into this question. Surely that commission can bring recommendations to this House which will result in legislation to relieve, to some extent at all events, the people of the Maritimes.

It is claimed that immediate steps should be taken to encourage and foster the coal industry in the Maritimes. We expect the commission to go into that question and make recommendations, but I do not know whether the claims made for the Maritimes would be permanent solution of those difficulties. I hardly know whether sufficient stress has been placed on the condition of the coal industry, not only in the Maritimes but throughout the world.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

Would the hon. gentleman allow a question? Would he, as one of the representatives of western Canada, be in favour of giving the Maritime provinces freight rates on a parity with those fixed under the Crowsnest pass agreement and subsequent legislation?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles Edward Bothwell

Liberal

Mr. BOTHWELL:

If the Maritime provinces were placed in the same position as western Canada in connection with their shipments, I would be quite willing to concede them the same freight rates. I believe, however, that there is possibly a considerable difference, so far as shipments are concerned, between the Maritimes and western Canada. I think it would be the duty of this commission to inquire into this very matter.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

I would like to ask what difference there is. Is it not a question of getting the products to the markets?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles Edward Bothwell

Liberal

Mr. BOTHWELL:

There is a difference, as I see it. In spite of the quotations and citations made in this House to show that the rates on shipments of western grain to 14011-194.J

the east occasion a loss to the railways, I believe-and in fact we know-that when great shipments of grain are moving east the railways are making their big profits, and I believe the grain coming from western Canada pays its way and leaves a reasonable return to the railways. If that commission finds, in studying Maritime conditions, that the freight rates from the Maritimes to central Canada should be reduced, I would say they should be reduced, and I believe there are two commissions inquiring into that matter at present.

I was speaking of the coal industry in Nova Scotia and the changing world conditions so far as coal is concerned. From the Daily Mail Year Book of 1926 I take the following statement, made by F. H. Rose, member of parliament for Aberdeen. He says:

It is difficult (to conceive a more serious and thought-compelling prospect for a great industrial nation, than the chronic decline in one of its major activities and this we have to face and deal with. The facts are clear enough. Before the war, unemployment in the sense that it now exists was an unknown element in colliery work. Men were temporarily out of work through defects in their working places, odd individuals were employed for various personal reasons, but a mass of colliers without employers and without jobs was unknown. To-day there must be at least as many chronically unemployed as shown in the table appended.

I will not read the table. He goes on to say:

It is not without serious thought that I submit the proposition that the coal trade is declining, and it will continue to decline as years go on, until it ceases to be major industry-here and elsewhere in the world. For the phenomena of a current transition are apparent all over the world. The rapid development of the motorship and the motor tractor are not entirely accountable for the conditions. The use of hydro-electricity by Italy and the Scandinavian nations has closed or is closing our middle coal markets (our distant markets were never very important). Our iron and steel manufactures are steadily passing from coke to electricity and their processes. Every effort of the modern scientist and inventor is directed now to economizing coal and the production of cheaper and cleaner and vastly more effective agencies for raising power, light and heat.

The effect of these innovations bears so heavily upon the industrial and social life of our people that an industrial writer may well be excused for emphasizing it. No reflective person can avoid the inevitable implications which arise from its consideration and the simple fact is that the world is using less coal to-day than it used yesterday and will be using less to-morrow than to-day. It is superfluous to stress the importance to our nation of a declining industry or its bearing upon the questions of unemployment and our social life.

Now, just what the situation is in the Maritimes so far as the coal industry is 'concerned, having regard to that portion of Mr. Rose's address which I have read, I do not know, but I am prepared to say,-and I believe I am speaking for western members generally when I make the statement-that

The Budget-Mr. Bothwell

3(i60

when a commission brings in.a report setting out the remedies, as they see them, for the situation in the Maritimes, I believe that every western member will be prepared to support legislation that will ameliorate those conditions.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink

May 3, 1926