April 23, 1926

PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

I believe that the company about which hon. gentlemen ask is part of General Motors, which is really an American concern. I take it that companies that are manufacturing under similar conditions and under the same tariff, if they are equally efficient and have the same mass production ought to make about the same profits. I have cited one instance and it is open to any hon. gentleman who speaks after me to prove that I am wrong.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

David Spence

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPENCE (Parkdale):

The Dodge

and the Durant are independent companies.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

The hon. member will

have an opportunity to speak later; I would rather not be interrupted now. The delegation that is here from Oshawa is one of importance, and I desire to make a few remarks in reference to it. It is rather a formidable delegation and one which I have not the slightest wish to treat lightly; indeed, I believe that these people are sincere and are convinced that they have a grievance. What I saw on many of theii banners led me to believe that they were taking the matter seriously. If I mistake not there appears on one ensign the declaration that they are fighting for their homes and families. Now there are very few members in this House who would willingly do anything to endanger the homes of Canadians in any part of the country. I am absolutely sure we are all anxious to do justice to every section of the community. In connection with this matter some of our members have made a very exhaustive study, having spent, not weeks but months on it; and during the discussion that took place recently on the automobile situation we have all of us, I believe, listened with the greatest care to the various views that have been put forward. We have weighed the matter very carefully, and we have not taken action before being thoroughly convinced.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN (Lincoln):

Which one of you took the action? We thought it was the government that was taking action.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

When I speak of taking

action I am referring to the support we have given to the reduction which has been made in the tariff. I may remind the House that a resolution in favour of such a reduction

was moved a short while ago by a member of this group, so that in one sense action was first taken in this corner.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

Hon. gentlemen to my

immediate right occasionally have an hilarious spell, but I noticed that during the presentation of the budget their faces were so long it would have cost some of them a dollar to get a shave. If I may proceed without further interruption, I want to say, speaking for myself alone, that the matter having been decided, the time for negotiation is past. If, however, it is found that a readjustment in small details in any respect will facilitate matters, I have no objection.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN (Lincoln):

Is this an announcement of the government's now?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

I do not need to have

eyes in the back of my head to know where that "meow" came from. In reference to the delegation, I do not think there is a single member in this corner of the House who would willingly vote for the reduction that has been proposed if he believed that it would force Canadians out of the country. I am convinced that after the water has been squeezed out of the stock and the industry has been made efficient, as in many instances I fear it is not, it ought to operate successfully. Some of the companies, I know, are efficient but others have not perhaps been operated as economically as possible, because effect of too much protection is to lead to inefficiency. So that after all efforts have been made to promote efficiency I am sure that the motor industry can continue to operate -without lowering the standard of living of its employees to a level which we should not like to see reached in this country, a level lower than that which obtains in other walks of life in which men are engaged in similar labour and under similar conditions. If in future, after a thorough investigation by the tariff board, it is found otherwise, then it will be time enough to take further action.

There were some engaged in the manufacturing of implements two years ago who believed that the reduction on farm machinery made at that time would injure their business, and while I do not propose to give any names, I know that some of these people have found that as a matter of fact they have been able to prosper to a greater degree than before. The reduction did not work out the way they expected. If, therefore, the people who are here to-day in this delegation will put their shoulders to

The Budget-Mr. Millar

the wheel, making up their minds to rise to the highest state of efficiency, they will find that they also can operate successfully. And, those who are buying automobiles among whom are many returned soldiers, just as there are in the delegation, will be able to get their cars at a lower price, while the feeling that now prevails in the country, that an industry has been receiving too much protection, will have been removed.

I want to refer briefly to a statement made by the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario (Mr. McGibbon), that the western farmer is being given protection in the way of freight rates. That is a common fallacy. There are in the esat, I believe, many people who are under the impression that the west is being bonused, that our grain is being carried at a freight rate that represents a loss to the railways. An official of the Canadian National Railways recently made the statement that the western wheat crop was carried at a loss of 16,000,000.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN (Lincoln):

Who would

know better?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

May I ask the hon.

member a question?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

When I have finished this.

It is surely rather strange that the railways make their best net profits in the months when they are carrying our grain. If they are carrying that grain at a loss, how is it they make a greater profit at that time than at any other period of the year? Yet that is what they do. What does that statement mean? Does it mean they lost $6,000,000 by getting less than they would have got under the old rate? When he was asked to give the proof, he stated that he would do so, but later he changed his mind and, I understand, stated he would give the commission an opportunity of looking through the accounts. If any member of this House or any officials of the railways can prove that the freight rates in western Canada, not on wheat alone-we would like the figures on wheat to be separated and see where we are at on that traffic-but taking the freight rates with the express rates, are less than they are in eastern Canada, we will be quite willing to equalize them. It might be news to some people who say that the east is carrying the west in this way to find that the freight rates on other commodities are considerably higher in the west than they are in the east. Statements have been made that our railways are losing money because they are carrying freight at rates less than those prevailing in

14011-174J

the United States. True, they are carrying grain for a less rate, but all the conditions must be taken into consideration. A railway official in United States when laying the difficulties that United States railways have to face before a rate tribunal in North Dakota made this statement:

A large number of figures showing the amount of (rack operated by the two railroads, and comparisons on the rate of taxes per mile and per $100 revenue, were produced by the witness.

The two lines were the Great Northern and the Canadian Pacific.

He declared that the Great Northern in 1924 paid taxes at the rate of $1,243 per mile, while the Canadian Pacific paid $311 per mile.

That in itself enables our Canadian railways, other things being equal, to carry commodities at a lower rate.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

Might I ask the question now?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

Yes.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

Does not the hon. member know that in a return prepared by the statistical department, and presented to the House by the Minister of Railways of this government which my hon. friend supports, it is stated that the operating ratio on wheat is $1.26?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

I shall require a little

further information before I answer that question.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

The explanation is that it cost the railway $1.26 to do a dollar's worth of business. In other words, that is the operating ratio.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

Was that on wheat alone?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink

April 23, 1926