April 16, 1926

PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

I think my hon. friend is unnecessarily alarmed. The class of individuals who will receive a pension

under this act have not the means for transporting themselves.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Possibly, but it would be discovered shortly and an end put to that practice. The only difficulty would be with the province of Alberta, where they would simply have to step over the line, but the pension board would soon become familiar with a situation of that kind.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

If that occurred a means of redress would be found. The five-year period is, I think, sufficient to prevent such a thing. The delightful climate of British Columbia is attractive, I know, but I think the class who would come under the provisions of this bill will hardly be travelling very much at the age of sixty-five, in order to get located for this scheme.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

I ithink the objection of my

hon. friend is fully met by section 11. If a man is getting near the age of sixty-five in Alberta, where there is no pension payable, and goes to British Columbia and stays five years his pension-

-shall be reduced by the same proportion as the dura-t on of the pensioner's residence in such other province bears to twenty years.

The man would only get a proportionate pension, so no advantage would be gained by going to British Columbia except that of living in such a delightful province.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON

Charles Herbert Dickie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DICKIE:

Thalt would conflict with

section 10, then, which provides that no matter what part of Canada the man has lived in, if he came to British Columbia the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta would have to pay a portion of this pension, but we would have the old gentleman wilth us.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

Section 10 deals with the

case where the previous province pays a pension, while section 11 deals with the case where the previous province does not pay a pension.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

There is one class

whose claims mi^ht be considered before passing this section; I refer to those who presented a petition the other day for [the blind. I do not know whether it is possible to make provision in this act for them. We all recognize that people with such a disability are in need of an old age pension earlier than are other people, because it is much more

Old Age Pensions

difficult for them to obtain work. I do not know whether it would be possible to have an amendment to subsection (b) to provide that in the case of blindness the age might be reduced by five or ten years. In one or two of the other acts such provision is made. Ideal disability insurance should perhaps be dealt with by a special act, but in the case of blindness comparatively few would be affected, and the expense would not be very heavy. I would at least suggest to the minister that an amendment might be made to subsection (b), to make it read:

-has attained the age of seventy years or, in the case of the blind, the age of sixty years;

Or whatever age might be fixed.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
PRO

Milton Neil Campbell

Progressive

Mr. CAMPBELL:

I might suggest to the

hon. member for Nanaimo (Mr. Dickie) that in such a case as he suggests it would not work such a hardship on British Columbia, because the prairie provinces would be paying their proportion of the Dominion tax. British Columbia, would be deriving some of the benefits, while the prairie provinces would have none. So that even in the extreme case mentioned, and I do not for a moment admit it would work out even in that case, British Columbia would be benefited.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON

Charles Herbert Dickie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DICKIE:

I think the clause quoted by the hon. member for Comox-AIbernd absolutely covers the point which I raised. I do not at all agree with the hon. member for Mackenzie. The sum of $20 a month is not going to support these old people, and we are not going to see them want if they come to British Columbia. But clause 11 absolutely covers the objection which I raised.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I was just

going to say to my friend from Winnipeg North Centre in regard to the case of the blind, of whom he has spoken, that I imagine there is no class in the community for whom we would desire to do more than for those who are deprived of their sight, but I think the matter of blindness ought to be considered independently of the matter of old age. This is experimental legislation at this stage, and I am afraid that if we burden it unduly by adding to old age other features, we may have difficulty in getting the general support we would like to have for this legislation. I would be inclined to think that any suggestion of that kind had better be deferred until after the statute is enacted, and if the provinces wish to make that proposal themselves in their own legislation, there would always be the opportunity if it were deemed advisable, to have our legislation amended.

There is the further fact that the federal government at the present time is appropriating some money, not a great deal, specifically for the blind. I have in my hand a copy of the estimates, and one item, under Miscellaneous, refers to a vote that we expect to get from parliament for the blind-Grant to the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, $10,000. If I recollect aright, there was some other vote for the blind we did appropriate in a previous year. I think we had better not at present introduce a new feature in this legislation.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON

Richard Langton Baker

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BAKER:

Is there any clause here

that would prevent a person of seventy who has a little capital from doing away with it for the purpose of getting a pension under this legislation?

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

If he was discovered doing that, he would not be qualified for a pension.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Yes. Paragraph

(g) provides that if he has not made any voluntary assignment or transfer of property for the purpose of qualifying for a pension, he is eligible; if he has done so, he is not eligible.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

I think not.

Section 8 agreed to.

On section 9-Maximum pension $240.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

Subsection 2 of section 9 refers to the transfer to the pension authority of the property or house in which the prospective pensioner may live. I cannot quite discover from a casual reading what becomes of the property after the death of the pensioner. Is it returned to his heirs less a certain amount retained for charges, or what becomes of the property?

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

If it is shown to

the pension authority that his people have contributed1 a reasonable amount, the property may go to them. That is provided in subsection 3.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
Permalink

April 16, 1926