April 16, 1926

PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

So have I. But

I think to extend the period of residence beyond twenty years would defeat the desire

Old Age Pensions

of those who are in favour of this legislation. Now, residence of five years in a province is a matter of degree.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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CON
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

I repeat that five

years' residence in a province is a matter of degree and judgment. In framing the bill it was thought there should be at least some period of residence required in a province, and it was decided that five years would be fair. To leave this to the provinces would not lead to uniformity. Provision is made in the bill that where, say, a person has resided for five years in Ontario, ten years in Alberta and finally five years in British Columbia, and there makes his application for a pension, the provinces concerned would each pay their proportion according to the term of residence within their boundaries-of course, provided that those provinces are in the scheme.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

Suppose those provinces

were not in the scheme, would not British Columbia in the case cited have to pay it all?

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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PRO
CON
PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

I quite agree with, my hon. friend as to the desirability of a time limit, but it was felt that five years would be sufficient protection, because after all that would not prevent people gravitating from a province where the scheme is not in effect to one where it is.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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CON

Richard Langton Baker

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BAKER:

My suggestion would be to

make clause (c) read:

(c) has resided in Canada since the age of twenty

years.

This would ensure to Canada the benefit of the labour from the age of twenty to the age of seventy, when the person would be rewarded with a pension.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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LAB
PRO
LAB
PRO

Milton Neil Campbell

Progressive

Mr. CAMPBELL:

I was trying to point out that under the present system a person could have an income of $360 a year, whereas under the British system he could not have more than $260.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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LAB

Abraham Albert Heaps

Labour

Mr. HEAPS:

New Zealand and Australia, and allow the pensioner to earn a higher amount than is here specified in paragraph (f). I would urge that upon the minister; I think it is a point worthy of consideration.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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PRO

John Warwick King

Progressive

Mr. KING (Kootenay):

Considering that this is our first attempt at an old age pensions scheme I think we should advance carefully. We have made provision for 820 a month. That is not a large sum, but in the aggregate it will involve a large expenditure. To increase the allowance one might have from earnings or from income seems an easy thing to do, but I think at present we could very well afford to be careful and fairly conservative. After the scheme is in operation, if it is successful, and if from experience we find that it might be enlarged and that we might be more generous, then would be the time to consider the matter. At present I would prefer, and do suggest to the committee, that we should not depart from the provisions as set forth in the act.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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PRO

John Livingstone Brown

Progressive

Mr. BROWN:

I would suggest that we take clause 8 section by section, and get somewhere. .

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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CON

Charles Herbert Dickie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DICKIE:

With respect to subsection (d) it seems to me a difficulty might arise. In the event that Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta declined to come in under this scheme, every man approaching the age of sixty-five in these three prairie provinces would immediately migrate to British Columbia, which province would doubtless come into the scheme. Although we in British Columbia venerate age we do not want our province to become an old men's home. What would prevent all these old men approaching sixty-five years of age from coming to British Columbia?

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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PRO
CON

Charles Herbert Dickie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DICKIE:

Manitoba shows no intention of adopting it. Alberta shows no such intention nor does Saskatchewan, but British Columbia undoubtedly will come in.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

In a case such as

that mentioned by my hon. friend there is provision made in clause 10 for the distribution of the burden.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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CON

Charles Herbert Dickie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DICKIE:

I quite understand that, but we have no senate in British Columbia; we do not want to make it an old man's home.

Topic:   OLD AGE PENSIONS
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April 16, 1926