March 19, 1926

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.

LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Trade and Commerce; Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Hon. J. A. ROBB (Minister of Finance):

I desire to move seconded by Mr. Motherwell:

That this House will on Monday, March 22nd instant, resolve itself into a committee to consider of -a supply to be granted to His Majesty.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Right Hon. ARTHUR MEIGHEN (Leader of the Opposition):

I take the ground that

the motion is not in order. The committee of Supply having risen, by virtue of a motion that "the chairman do now leave the chair," it is of course extinguished. It passes from the order paper and, I submit, is subject to be revived only upon the submission of a proclamation from His Excellency, or by bringing down a new Speech from the Throne-

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

General election.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

That would be even better.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

-or by the submission of further estimates to this House. I refer Your Honour to May, 13th edition, on pages 538-539:

When all the supplies for the service of the year have been granted, the sittings of the committee of Supply are discontinued. Care must be taken not to close the committee until all the necessary grants have been obtained. If the committee of Supply be designedly closed, it cannot be reopened save by the demand from the crown for further supplies made by a second Speech from the Throne, or a royal message, or by the communication of additional estimates.

Those words are most distinct. They are not qualified by anything in any other authority that I have been able to see, in fact they are supported distinctly by Bourinot at page 400 There is a case defined by Bourinot, distinct

[Mr. Speaker. 1

from the case we are on now, where subsequent to a motion that progress be reported a motion immediately follows for the chairman to leave the chair. There the committee may be revived upon motion, but even Bourinot is distinct that where there is nothing but the motion that the chairman leave the ch*ir it cannot be revived upon motion save only upon the conditions stated in May. I read them again:

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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?

An hon. MEMBER :

Louder please.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I read them again:

When all the supplies for the service of the year have been granted, the sittings of the committee of Supply are discontinued. Care must be taken not to close the committee until all the necessary grants have been obtained. If the committee of Supply be designedly closed it cannot be reopened save by the demand from the crown for further supplies made by a second Speech from the Throne, or a royal message, or by the communication of additional estimates.

Instances are given in the footnote of each of these methods being adopted. That the committee was designedly closed goes without saying. It does not need to be closed at the instance of the government. A committee of the House is not under the charge of the government at all.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Louder.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It was closed by a member of the committee making the motion to close it.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

What were the first words of the statement my right hon. friend read?

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The first sentence is not

relevant at all.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
Permalink
CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I referred some time ago to this method of interrupting; I hope I do not need to remind hon. members of it. I will read the paragraph again:

When all the supplies for the service of the year have been granted the sittings of the committee of Supply are discontinued.

Certainly, they are, that is the regular proceeding. Now:

Care must be taken not to close it until all the necessary grants have been obtained.

The reason being that when it is closed this result follows:

If the committee of Supply be designedly closed, it cannot be reopened save by demand from the crown for further supply made by a second Speech from the Throne, or a royal message.

There is nothing in the world to qualify the sentence upon which I rely, "that if the committee is designedly closed" and that it

Supply-Point

was designedly closed there can be no doubt.

It was not designed by the government, I quite admit that, but the committee is not in charge of the government. The committee is wholly independent. The committee granting supplies to the crown designedly was closed by the motion, and therefore the steps which I have indicated must be taken to revive it.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Trade and Commerce; Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

Mr. Speaker, I am not going

to enter into a controversy with my right hon. friend on the points he has just raised more than to say this, that the procedure followed to-day is in my recollection identically the same procedure that was followed at one period when my right hon. friend was either the Prime Minister or a very important and active member of the government of the day.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

When?

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Trade and Commerce; Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I will come to that in a

moment. My right hon. friend knows as well as I do that it is not always easy for a government to know when a vote is going to be sprung on them by the opposition. My right hon. friend will redall, if not I think the chief opposition whip will, that during the period in question, 1920-1921, the government of the day had difficulty in keeping their forces in the House and an opposition is always anxious to make trouble. That was the situation at that time. The chief government whip of that day came to me and told me of his difficulties, and one night some of our boys, anxious to play such a trick as was played upon us yesterday, counted the House out, and consequently the House had to adopt exactly the same procedure respecting estimates as has been adopted today. Upon the . instructions of the then leader of the opposition, who is the Prime Minister to-day, I as chief whip, arranged with the government whip of the day that we would not impede the despatch of public business by counting the House out if the government had difficulty in keeping the members here. That was the position we took in opposition. All we ask is that the same courtesy be extended to us.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It was a case of counting the House out because there were not enough members in. That is not the case here at all.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
Subtopic:   POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR. MEIGHEN RESPECTING MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE.
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March 19, 1926