June 26, 1925

CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

If the minister

is able to do missionary work in the cabinet he will see that a resolution is not brought down to be thrown into the discard, and that something will be done. He is entirely mistaken as to my attitude. I have always taken the same position as to coking.

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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

I did not

hear my hon. friend say anything in the House in regard to it.

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I have never

taken a contrary position. I have said that anything that could be done to look after Canadian coal should be done.

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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

I am glad

to hear it.

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CON
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

The hon.

member kept it under his hat.

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

The hon. minister is entirely wrong. His memory is not very good. I have always taken the same position and have always supported such a proposition, and further I went this far in the House, despite my hon. friend's convenient memory-'that I challenged a division in this House on that very policy when the government wanted to get away from the proper consideration of that question of the duty on coal and coal policy. I am not saying anything about his memory. It will get better when he looks over Hansard and studies that division when there was a solid vote on this side for the coal and a solid vote on that

side against it. Apart altogether from these little pleasantries of party politics, there is a real interest here that ought to be served and the difficulties are not so great. I admit frankly there are difficulties about starting . anything, but this is not new. Up-to-date and proper gas plants have been going on for years. Germany has made a tremendous success of this simply because she says: You shall not burn coal; you must bum coke. In that way she has acquired a monopoly of that enormous dye business that depends upon coal tar. I am glad my hon. friend assures me that so far as he can see to it there will be no more withdrawals of this sort of legislation next year.

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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

My hon.

friend will recall that on the division to which he refers his leader spoke against-

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

That was last

year. My hon. friend's memory is very bad.

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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

There is one thing I vividly remember. This is the first time I ever heard my hon. and genial friend make a proposition in favour of assistance to the Canadian manufacturers of coke from coal, I am sure Hansard will support me on that point. There are those who advocate assisting the industry by way of a bonus. There are those who urge that the assistance should be rendered in the form presented in the legislation. The problem is not an easy one to solve. This government is concerned with a solution of the problem, because it involves a solution of the method under which central Canada can be assured of being heated in the cold weather. The supply of anthracite from the south is liable to be cut off at any time. A threatened coal strike there might result in a situation that would bring the matter imminently before us and I am glad we shall have my hon. friend's support on the subject.

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

In regard to the experiment in connection with the movement of Alberta coal, an hon. gentleman asked the minister as to the position taken by Sir Henry .Thornton, referring to the fact that Sir Henry Thornton was reported in the newspapers as having said that, as a result of governmental legislation, all these matters were before the board and he could not bring the rates in or words to that effect. I can hardiy think Sir Henry Thornton is correctly reported. Those matters are no more before the board now that they were previously. They have always been before the board. As

Supply-Interior

regards the question of a coal rate, there is no further consideration of the question now than there was at any other time. There is absolutely no reason why the company could not go on with what it said it would do and the experiment certainly ought to be made. The Minister of Railways and Canals ought to assure us that the experiment will be made.

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CON

Arthur Edward Ross

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROSS (Kingston):

Will the minister

give us the statement as to what, if anything, he has done since that report was made in the press?

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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

The arrangement was made strictly between the Alberta government and the railway. I was asked for assistance and I gladly agreed 12 m. to give it, with the consent of the government, of course, to the extent of a dollar a bon. The first proposal was for a 100,000 ton movement. I would have welcomed very much more, but on that movement I proposed at the time to give them fifty cents a ton. For some reason they cut the quantity down from 100,000 to 25,000 tons. On the 25,000 ton movement we had a definite arrangement made for that movement on the basis which I have outlined. Personally, I will do anything in my power to get the movement under way, because if coal can- be moved in large train load lots, that can be done only in the slack season on the railways, and that is in May and June or June and July before the wheat movement starts, so as to get plenty of time to move the cars back for the heavy wheat movement which would occur later. That was all that was asked and that is the very slack season in our mines. Last year I went and discussed the matter with representatives of the mine owners in Drumheller, and I said to them: If we put up a substantial amount to guarantee this movement and to keep a check upon it, you ought to undertake to cut your production costs very materially. They agreed to do so if this was done at this particular time of the year which was a slack period. I have made this somewhat extended explanation, because I want the committee, and particularly our western people who are anxious about this matter, to know that so far as we are concerned, we are ready to do anything we can to forward this movement.

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LAB

Joseph Tweed Shaw

Labour

Mr. SHAW:

The ex-Minister of Finance

(Sir Henry Drayton) has suggested that the Minister of Railways and Canals (Mr. Graham), perhaps, could give some assurance in connection with this matter. If there is any failure of the plan, it is apparently on the part of the Canadian National Railways. It is

very important that the experiment should be undertaken now. We would be delighted to have from the Minister of Railways his assurance that he is prepared to do what he can to see that the experiment is carried out pursuant to the arrangement made.

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

The Canadian National

Railways are working under a statute passed by parliament, and the Minister of Railways has no authority except his good influence in the matter of advice.

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LAB
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

I discussed this just the

other day. I do not know anything about the details of the arrangement. I believe it is an arrangement made between Mr. Greenfield and the Canadian National Railways. I understand Mr. Greenfield is in Montreal now.

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LAB

Joseph Tweed Shaw

Labour

Mr. SHAW:

Would the minister use his

good offices with Sir Henry Thornton to see that this experiment is carried out?

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

I would very much like to see it carried out, and I have told the railway company I would like to see them give rates whereby this experiment could be carried out. I cannot go any further than that,

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PRO

George Gibson Coote

Progressive

Mr. COOTE:

As regards the movement

of steam coal from Alberta to Winnipeg, the freight rate, I think, is $5.15 per ton.

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June 26, 1925