Mr. SPEAKER:

I would remind the right hon. gentleman that rule 19 precludes any reference to the Senate.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I do not think rule 19 forbids reference to the Senate, but to what takes place there. I am not referring to anything that has taken place in the chamber. If a report is to be published, I would think that the evidence in support of it should be published too. I hope my words will reach the Senate.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

We are told that the Senate committee met in camera.

Right Hon. ARTHUR MEIGHEN (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, on the orders of the day some few days ago I called attention to the fact that sessional paper 258, being an alleged return to an order of the House for a statement of the expenses of the special committee on Ocean Rates, with details, gave repeated answers, " No information ", on a subject with respect to which the government has the fullest information-in fact, the government makes the payments itself. I spoke again yesterday on it and stated I would certainly expect the return to be completed to-day, if this is to be the last day of the session. Also I would ask the government

Canada Grain Act

now, while this matter is being referred to, if it will undertake to have answered, before the session closes, the question which stands in my name now as No. 2 on the order paper. I have drawn attention to this on two occasions also.

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

With respect to the return, I am informed that up to the present time the government has not received from the counsel his bill of costs, which, as my hon. friend knows, is taxed by the Justice department. There is nothing in the department; therefore we are not in a position to answer the question.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I do not see that the counsel can relieve the government by withholding his bill. The committee completed its work long ago. We know what he was being paid per day. The government can get the number of days and simply state, in answer to the first part of the question, that Mr. Symington was occupied so many days at that much, plus expenses; and the other part of the question can be fully answered. With that I will be satisfied.

Mr. LAPOINTE:

Only a little multiplication is required, which my right hon. friend can do for himself.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I am quite ready to do that if the rest is answered. If the government will give the amount per day, I can do the multiplying myself. May I not get an answer as to whether or not this question is going to be answered this session? Five minutes' calculation will put that answer in shape, and I have a right to the answer on the authority of the government.

Mr. LAPOINTE:

Which rule compels the government to answer all questions asked by my right hon. friend or anybody else when they have the information and can do the work themselves?

Mr. MEIGHEN:

If the government will say it will not answer that question, all very well; let the government say so-

Mr. LAPOINTE:

No.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

-and not hide behind mere delay by way of evasion.

Mr. LAPOINTE:

That is childish. We have other work to do just now.

Mr. T. E. SIMPSON (West Algoma):

On March 9 an order of the House was passed for a return in respect to motor cars pur-

chased by the government. The order was enlarged later on, and a return was placed on the table a couple of days ago giving information with respect only to the Department of National Defence. That surely does not comply with the order of the House. I would ask the Prime Minister if I may expect the balance of the return before the close of the session.

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

Information had to come from several of the departments to make up the return. I will inquire of the Secretary of State and see if my hon. friend's wish cannot be met.

Mr. GRAHAM:

Maybe the confusion has arisen over the fact that until a couple of years ago all the cars were under the Department of National Defence and were looked after by them.