Mr. MURDOCK:

That, of course, is a question which the passenger departments of the two railways have to determine, ana they regard it as necessary to make the rates slightly higher returning from the west than going west to employment.

Mr. BROWN:

It is likely they will have more money when they get through their work out there and will be able to pay a bigger fare.

Mr. MacLAREN:

Perhaps the minister will interest himself in this matter as well as the other.

Mr. MURDOCK:

This is a part of the other question, and we have had a number of conferences with the railways and will probably have another one shortly. I do not think we will be able to get any better arrangement in respect to this matter than we have in the past.

Mr. LUCAS:

Will the minister explain that

vote?

Mr. MURDOCK:

The expenditure under this item, $3,000, is very uncertain depending largely upon the extent to which the provincial governments take advantage of the statute providing for technical education in Canada. The appropriation is intended merely to meet disbursements for printing and stationery and other supplies, and travelling expenses of the Director of Technical Education. The detailed statement of expenditures for the fiscal year 1924-25 is as follows:

Travelling expenses

$1,064 40Printing and stationery

1,325 18Sundries

3 39Total

$2,392 97

Mr. COOTE:

Has there been any increase in the number of annuities taken out during the last year? If so, what is the increase?

Mr. MURDOCK:

Yes, there has been a gradual increase during the past two or three years in the number of annuities taken out

and the amount paid to the government for that purpose as will be seen from this statement:

Annuities Amount paid

1922- 23

339 $1,028,353 071923- 24

409 1,459,042 411924- 25

488 1,607,989 58

Mr. COOTE:

Has the minister the total amount the government holds under this annuity scheme?

Mr. MURDOCK:

The total amount received on account of the purchase of annuities from September, 1908, when the act came into effect, to March 31, 1925, exclusive of amounts returned to persons where no contracts were issued, is $9,754,299.42.

Mr. BROWN:

Is the scheme becoming

more popular of late years, since it has become better known under the Department of Labour, than it was under the Post Office Department?

Mr. MURDOCK:

There has been a gradual improvement, indicated by the figures I gave a few moments ago, and we are in hopes that, as a result of the amendment we made to the act this year providing for the purchase of a minimum annuity of ten dollars instead of the present or past minimum of fifty dollars, there will be a great deal more interest taken in this form of annuity by the class of persons we desire to reach.

Mr. CALDWELL:

Are these annuities on an actuarial basis? Are they supposed to finance themselves?

Mr. MURDOCK:

Yes, they are; and at the same time if you ask the Superintendent of Insurance or anyone else connected with anr nuities possibly he will say that there is no definite table on which you can fix an actuarial basis for annuities, but as nearly as possible they are I think regarded as being on a correct actuarial basis.

Mr. BROWN:

What is the amount necessary to buy that ten dollar annuity?

Mr. MURDOCK:

The rates are:

"10 years

Age "A" "B" guarantee"21

$15 70 $ 8 25 $18 6545

40 25 25 88 47 80

Mr. CALDWELL:

Is the rate of payment the same on a ten dollar annuity as on a fifty or hundred dollar annuity?

Mr. MURDOCK:

Proportionately.