June 25, 1925

PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. E. J. GARLAND (Bow River):

Mr. Speaker, possibly I may be able to enlighten mv hon. friends to the right. The province

Rural Credits

of Alberta has passed legislation respecting long term rural credits, but the minister in charge, Hon. Mr. Brownlee, made it quite clear before the measurp passed the local house that to make it operative it would be necessary that they should be able to raise money by cheaper means such as through the Dominion government, than they are now able to do as a province. Whether the proposal of the minister will have this effect or not I cannot tell. All I have to suggest at the present moment is that if the loans to be advanced are not at any one time in the whole life of the scheme to exceed the sum of ten million dollars-

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I do not wish to interrupt the hon. member, for he is undoubtedly exercising his rights, but if there is no objection to the principle of the bill perhaps it would be wiser to go into the committee stage at once. Is that the desire of the House?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I am content, as the bill has no principle.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink

Motion agreed to, bill read the second time, and the House went into committee thereon, Mr. Gordon in the chair.


PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

I am willing to concede the government credit for savi lg itself in this matter, but frankly I do not look upon the measure as by any means ample enough to meet the requirements of an agricultural loan scheme for the Dominion. In fact, it will not meet a fraction of the needs. I am, however, not at this moment objecting to the little bit that is offered, especially as I hope that further reasons in the future will induce the government to realize that a ten-million-dollar loan will not in any way effe.t what is the chief purpose of the bill-the reduction of the interest rates on long tern mortgages. In Saskatchewan, under the run! credit system something over nine million dollars has already been loaned without materially, or indeed appreciably, producing any effect upon t'he level of interest rates on long term loans in that province. Dr. Tory, in cross-examination before the committee on Agriculture of 1924, made it quite clear that in his opinion it would require from sixteen to twenty per cent of the total amount of money now outstanding in farm loans to be loaned in competition under some government scheme to be effective in reducing interest rates.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LIB

William Daum Euler

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

What sum would the hon. member suggest as being adequate to meet the situation?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

At this moment it would be impossible for any individual or for any government to determine exactly the amount of money that may be required.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LIB

William Daum Euler

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

Could the hon. member state approximately?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

No, not even approximately. Under the legislation now before us it is declared there Shall be a maximum amount, including principal and interest, of ten million dollars. I assert that that sum is inadequate.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LIB

William Daum Euler

Liberal

Mr. EULER:

Would the hon. gentleman state the maximum sum?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

No, I would put no maximum sum. I would leave th:s entirely to the discretion of the Treasury board.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I am glad to note the renewed confidence of my hon. friend in the Treasury board.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

My hon.

friend's confidence is based on something different from mine. I am satisfied that before very long the Treasury board will be acting along lines that hon. members in this corner of the House have advocated for some time.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
?

An hon. MEMBER:

A new government.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

Possibly a

new government, too. But I would rather leave it to the discretion of the Treasury board to determine the amount of credit that should be extended to any province for a scheme of this kind. Other factors besides the mere provincial security would be taken into consideration. I do not want to delay the passage of this bill, but I wish the minister would give us the assurance that the amount of $10,000,000 is not to be regarded by him as sufficient to meet the competitive requirements of agriculture in Canada.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LAB

William Irvine

Labour

Mr. IRVINE:

Did not Dr. Tory estimate

the mortgage debt of the farmers of Alberta alone at something around $100,000,000 and suggest that it would require at least $20,000,000 to carry their current requirements?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
PRO

Edward Joseph Garland

Progressive

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

No. I

think the hon. member has in mind a statement that was made by the Attorney General of Alberta in the local House, Hon. Mr. Brownlee, who estimated two years ago that the outstanding long term farm loans in Alberta amounted to $100,000,000. Of course it was an estimate. Dr. Tory has estimated, I

Rural Credits

4S81

think, the mortgage indebtedness of the three prairie provinces at $250,000,000. If 16 or 20 per cent of that would require to be provided under some competitive scheme established under governmental jurisdiction, then certainly the measure before the committee is not adequate, if the $10,000,000 is to be a maximum at any one time, including both principal and interest. I trust that the minister will be able to give the assurance that he does not regard the $10,000,000 as being adequate to meet the amount that may be required to create competitive rates in mortgage loans.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LAB

William Irvine

Labour

Mr. IRVINE:

Suppose that $10,000,000 is

put out under this scheme at approximately 7 per cent; twenty years from now we shall have over $10,000,000 in interest, so that would mean we are only lending the interest. If you keep on doubling the amount, I do not know what kind of system it will be.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Will not the interest have been paid year by year?

Mr. McTAOGiART: Some provinces may

desire to take advantage of this scheme and others may not. Is provision made for a maximum amount which may be advanced to any one province?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

No.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   RURAL CREDITS
Sub-subtopic:   FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO AGRICULTURE-LONG TERM LOANS TO FARMERS
Permalink

June 25, 1925