June 24, 1925

LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

It is not often I rise in the House to talk on military matters, because

I am essentially not a military man, nor do I come from a race that has ever made a success of the battlefield.

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LIB
LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

We supplied troops; we

also furnished the uniforms. I think I ought to be permitted to say a few words on this question, and to declare that I am in favour of military training in the schools. I do not belong to that cult which teaches that when a man smites you on one cheek, turn to him .the other cheek, and therefore, I think I am on fairly good ground when I declare that I am in favour of giving some little military training to the children in the school when they are obtaining their ordinary education.

It has been said that the battles of England have been won on the playgrounds of their public schools. There seems to be a great deal in that. Shakespeare puts into the mouth of one of his characters:

Beware of entrance to a quarrel; but being in, BeaT't, that the one opposed may beware of thee.

Surely that is good doctrine, and it is as good to-day as it was three hundred years ago. Many parents send their children to boxing schools. Why? Not that they should become Jack Dempseys or Benny Leonards or make a living by their boxing prowess, but for the purpose of defending themselves in case of necessity. They call it the manly art, and I am not at all surprised that my good friend the fair member for Southeast Grey (Miss Macphail) is not in favour of it because I do not think she would ever want to engage in a boxing bout with anybody. But we must look at this from the point of view of the man, not of the woman. If I had my way, Mr. Chairman, I would not have women teach boys in school at all. Boys should be taught by men, and girls should be taught by women. They say the secret of England's greatness is that the boys are taught by men, and it is also said that what makes for effeminacy in the people of some countries is that most of the children are taught by women. Now I have no quarrel at all with the female sex, but I think they ought to restrict themselves to teaching young girls, leaving men to teach the boys. If that were done, I think it would be a good thing for the country all round. Women have their limitations in the matter of teaching. They look at things from the feminine point of view, and if you leave a boy in charge of a woman-

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IND

William Charles Good

Independent Progressive

Mr. GOOD:

Mr. Chairman, I presume this is strictly in order.

Supply-Defence

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LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

I say if you have a boy

taught and brought up by a woman, he becomes more or less of a " sissy " when he grows to be a man.

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LIB

Andrew Ross McMaster

Liberal

Mr. McMASTER:

Would the hon. member permit a question? Would he eliminate mothers in order to develop manliness in the race?

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LIB
PRO

Robert Alexander Hoey

Progressive

Mr. HOEY:

Does not the hon. member

think that if we denied women the opportunity of teaching boys in the early part of their career, -they would have their revenge later?

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LIB
PRO
LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

That is a little too subtle for me. After all, what is it we admire in boys and men? What we admire is the spirit of endurance. We admire the fibre that is developed in the young man. Now in this military training they get all that. They learn something about subordination, something about obedience. They have their various tests of endurance, and for the life of me I cannot see why red-blooded men can object to any such training as that. It seems to me that the whole subject to-night is scarcely worth discussion. It is more or less of a milk and water type, something that is taught in church basements in Sunday schools, but not something that should be brought before the parliament of Canada. I for one am entirely in favour of this grant. I think that the cutting down of the estimate to one dollar is not sufficient to teach 115,000 children.

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PRO

John Evans

Progressive

Mr. EVANS:

I did not mean to take part in this debate, and I shall delay the House but a very few minutes. Let me say at the outset that I feel it my duty to support the amendment, and I want to give one or two reasons for doing so.

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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Make it snappy.

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PRO

John Evans

Progressive

Mr. EVANS:

Yes, I will make it snappy,

and if I am not interrupted I will take my seat perhaps in two minutes.

We need not make any mistake regarding this vote. It is a military vote. The idea behind cadet training is militarism, and I feel that we are creating the wrong spirit in our young people when we are teaching them militarism at that tender age. I say this, not because I or any of my family are of the milk and water type referred to by the hon. member

for George Etienne Cartier (Mr. Jacobs). Three of my own volunteered for service in the last war, and two of them were accepted. Military training creates a spirit of domination in any man, and I think- we can better train our young people in another organization than under the cadet service. I would rather see this House foster by a vote the work of the Boy Scouts. The idea behind that is service, and service is the greatest thing in the world. A nation is not any safer because it is a nation of soldiers. The safety of a nation does not lie in its military training. Safety of a nation really lies in the unity of its people, and it seems to me that we could better turn our attention to unifying this nation than creating at this time machinery to go to war with other nations. We are creating a wrong spirit altogether, and it is a waste of money because the expenditure is made for an improper purpose.

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?

Charles Stephen Booth

Mr. WOODSY ORTH:

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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

On that

point, my hon. friend wanted some corroboration of the statemenit I made to the House that training only went on in such schools as sought to have -the training there, and- the request was approved of by the educational authorities of the province. I have asked my deputy who is here, in regard to the matter, and he states that that is the rule. I also asked the hon. member -for Rim-o-uski, who was deputy minister for a number of years, and he says that that is exactly the rule, and I want to remind my hon. friend that if the Deputy Minister of Education in Manitoba wanted to get the information he should have written to the Deputy Minister of National Defence, without writing to a subordinate who -had no authority in the matter.

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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

The proper thing was to write to the person who was invading the schools of the province-

-Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou): No, that is not the proper statement. He went to the schools at the request of some of the authorities in Manitoba-

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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

The minister stated that the Minister of Education must ratify the application.

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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

The hon

member knows very well that if I used the word "Minister of Education" I meant the Superintendent of Education or the party in control. In my -province there is no Minister of Education-, buit there is a Superintendent of Education, and he is the one to whom the application should be made.

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LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

The deputy minister in Manitoba knows nothing about the matter-

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June 24, 1925