June 20, 1925

PRO
CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The records show that it did not. I know every official always wants to have the say as to who is under him. There is something to be said for that. In private business it is the right thing, but in government business it is impossible because of other elements that enter into the situation that cannot enter into private business where profit is the object. The hon. member says that we lose men who are almost indispensable to the grain, trade. That is the case throughout the whole service, and it is bound to be so as long as government service exists. If the hon,. member thinks that any board that is .paying out public money is to be allowed to pay out just as high salaries as are necessary to keep the men it wants to keep, my eyes weep for the taxpayers of Canada. That is impossible; if the hon. member had charge of a department for a short time, he would soon see the impossibility of it. You cannot keep the best by .paying them salaries equal to those which a private business will pay. We have a certain structure built up. We have already started nibbling at it in various ways, and if we keep on we shall find more and more .precedents to follow until the whole structure falls down. We builit n.p this great structure under cover of professions of desire to abandon patronage for good, and now we are pleading for it after knowing what it has performed.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

Alfred Edgar MacLean

Liberal

Mr. MACLEAN (Prince):

In the Agriculture committee we were given to understand that the Grain Act was self-sustaining. If that is the case. I think it would be rather far-fetched to say that tjie Civil Service Commission should control the appointments.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The whole Weights and Measures service is self-sustaining; the Post Office Department is self-sustaining; the Department of Customs and Excise is selfsustaining; the Income Tax branch is seAf-sus-taining. That is the 'case, not in every part of the service, but instances can .be found all through the service. The .principle that has been advocated would destroy all that has been done.

Canada Grain Act

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

Alfred Edgar MacLean

Liberal

Mr. MACLEAN (Prince):

There is a difference in that. In many of these, technical or educational training or special training along certain lines is required, but in this case possibly a farmer who would be handling grain would be better for the work than a technical man. Therefore, it looks to the outside observer as if it would not be necessary to have competitive examinations; but I think, when this is purely a farmers' organization and they are paying for the work, it would be quite within their rights to have the Board of Grain Commissioners appoint the men to do the work.

Amendment (Mr. Garland, Bow River)

negatived: Yeas, 36; Nays, 43.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
PRO

Robert Gardiner

Progressive

Mr. GARDINER:

I have another amendment to move to subsection (2) of section 9. I move that the words "Governor in Council" in the twelfth line be struck out and the words "Civil Service Commission" be substituted therefor so that the subsection will read:

Notwithstanding anything in any other act contained, inspectors, .inspecting officers, weighmasters and their ass 'slants shall be paid such compensation as is determined by the Civil Service Commission upon the recommendation of the board.

I attended the sessions of the agricultural committee on many occasions and I did hear evidence with regard to the question of salaries for technical men under the board. But I never heard any member of the board or even the chief inspector make the statement that they had not been able to obtain from the Civil Service Commission all increases they had asked for. That being the case, I see no reason why the Civil Service Commission should not have control in this matter. I do not wish to take up the time of the committee further and I now move the amendment I propose.

Amendment negatived on division: Yeas,

38; Nays, 44.

Subsection (2) agreed to.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink

Section agreed to. Sections 10 and 11 agreed to. On section 12-Appointment of persons having technical knowledge.


CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

What is the necessity

for this section? It declares that certain technical officers may be appointed "in the manner authorized by law." Unless there is something in this section that does not appear on the surface it is pure surplusage.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB
CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The note of explanation to section 9 states that that section-

-corresponds to section 8 of the act of 1912, but is drafted to conform to the requirements of the Civil Service Act.

And the note that explains this section, 12 declares that the section corresponds to section 11 of the act of 1912 but is drafted in accordance with the Civil Service Act. Unless this section is meant to get around the Civil Service Act it has no meaning because the same matters would come under section 9. What has the minister to say in explanation of it?

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Andrew Low (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. LOW:

I do not think I can add anything to the explanatory note. Section 11 of the act of 1912 provides that the board may, with the approval of the Governor in Council, appoint any person having special or technical knowledge of the subject in question to assist in an advisory capacity on any matter before the board. That is substantially the same as the clause now before us.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
PRO

Oliver Robert Gould

Progressive

Mr. GOULD:

I can conceive the necessity

arising for the board to send to any of the terminal elevators in any part of the country some man having technical knowledge of his subject, and in that case I should think this provision would be necessary.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

If that is what it means, it is covered under section 9.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

This is merely to conform to the Civil Service Act.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink

Section agreed to. Sections 13 to 31 inclusive agreed to. On section 32-Official standards. Samples of grain.


CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

What is the real effect of the change?

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Andrew Low (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. LOW:

It was a specific date before, and it was found impossible sometimes to collect the samples promptly.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink

Section agreed to. Section 33 agreed to. On section 34-After dark or in wet weather. Inspecting officer to be present. Issue of certificate.


CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I must congratulate the draftsman on his very illuminating comments at the side.

Topic:   CANADA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT
Permalink

Section agreed to. Sections 35 to 38, inclusive, agreed to. 40J2 Canada Grain Act


June 20, 1925