June 1, 1925

PRO

George Gibson Coote

Progressive

Mr. G. G. COOTE (Macleod):

I should

like to express my opinion very briefly. I think the hon. member for St. John and Albert (Mr. Baxter) is quite right. For my part I do not think you can compromise between right and wrong. I think it is only right that the word "knowingly" should have been inserted in the section before the word "import." I can only say to the minister that I regret that he is not consistent, and that he does not try to protect those who are innocent so far as their knowledge goes. I fail to see what line of action the minister is really trying to follow in this matter.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT
Permalink
PRO

Thomas George McBride

Progressive

Mr. T. G. McBRIDE (Cariboo):

I do not see why we should give so much consideration to those who import butter and cheese into this country. We do not want these products imported; we can produce all we require here. I would like to see the penalty increased instead of being reduced in the case of anybody who tries to bring butter or cheese into Canada.

Motion agreed to and bill read the third time.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT
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LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK


Hon. W. R. MOTHERWELL (Minister of Agriculture) moved that the House go into committee on Bill No. Ill, to amend the Live Stock and Live Stock Products Act, 1923. Motion agreed to and the House went into committee, Mr. Gordon in the chair. On section 1-Removal from stock-yards.


LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

This section is

exactly the same as in the old act with the exception that the word "such" is omitted; it was inserted by mistake.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
PRO

Donald Ferdinand Kellner

Progressive

Mr. KELLNER:

What is the. meaning of

the reference to section 16?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

That relates to the by-laws and regulations of the stock-yards exchange.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink

Section agreed to. Live Stock Act



On section 2-Provisions to be included in by-laws.


LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

The committee on Agriculture changed the bill a bit, I was not present at the time.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

George Newcombe Gordon (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

The committee amended this section by adding after the word "thereof" in the thirty-first line the following words "and all moneys received to effect purchase of live stock shall be deposited. in a shippers' trust account in a chartered bank."

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I explained to the

hon. member for Macleod (Mr. Cootel that after we discussed this matter when we were considering the resolution I again discussed it with some of my officers. Apparently they had been looking the question up in the meantime and found there was not really any law with respect to the administration of trust accounts. So we decided to try the new term "trust account" with the addition that was put in by the committee on Agriculture which seems to me to dove-tail in well and to present itself as the best method that we could devise. So I think the amended section will be all right.

Section as amended agreed to.

On section 3-Licenses for commission merchants.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

George Newcombe Gordon (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

This section has been

amended by striking out after the words "egg breaking plant" in the tenth line the following words "or to operate as an egg buyer or dealer in eggs." These are the words that have been struck out by the agricultural committee.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

John Babington Macaulay Baxter

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BAXTER:

The section I take it

originally dealt with the licensing of persons connected with the stock-yards, that is operating on a stock-yard as commission merchants or dealers. Now, persons are brought in here who apparently had no connection with the stock-yards-people who operate as exporters of live stock, meat, poultry, eggs and wool. It seems to me that the exporters of these commodities scarcely require to be regulated. I would like to hear some reasonable explanation for mixing them up with the stock-yard business, or for having an official of the department fall on them and require a license, and above all take a fee. Surely people can go into this business without having to be regulated down to the nines? We are having altogether too much paternalism on the part of the government

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

This has been

amended so as to omit the need for a license for anyone except those engaged in the export trade! All these egg circles, and such, have been eliminated by the amendment. Now the only ones that will be licensed will be those that are exporting eggs to any country. I may say that we have information from the Imperial Marketing committee indicating that all products of Canadian origin that desire to have a preference over foreign products on the British market will have to be distinctly marked "of Canadian origin." If the exporters refuse to do this we should have the power to license them or to refuse to grant a license. Just as in the case of cheese we are endeavouring to build up the quality of our products especially on the British and other markets. Now, Canada has already done a lot to commend the quality of its products to the Old Country consumer. I expect, judging from our correspondence overseas, that it will only be a short time when that provision will be part of the conditions on which they wall obtain access to the British market. We have been following this practice and this is simply in conformity with/ our practice. If tve are going to have the necessary care exercised by exporters, we must have some way of obliging them to put their products in proper shape, just as we have done in the case of cheese, which we discussed the other day in the House. If a man persists in doing that which will destroy our trade in dairy products with another country, we must have some way of preventing him doing it; otherwise he will repeat the offence. We did take authority in regard to cheese the other day, after a great deal of discussion, and this measure is along the same lines. We may not have to exercise the right of demanding a license, but the very fact that we have the power to demand a license from any exporter of these commodities will act as a great deterrent of wrongdoing. This provision does not apply to the country merchant or the retailer. That matter was dealt with by the committee on Agriculture. This provision applies only to those engaged in the export trade. I am sure the hon. member for Victoria City (Mr. Tolmie) is aware of the facts in regard to this matter because he is in touch with it; and my deputy reports to me, after his recent trip to the Old Country, that Canadian storage eggs are the highest class of eggs found on the British market. That has not happened by accident. A number of hon. members knows that it takes a

Live Stock Act

good deal of work at the point of origin to see that the quality is preserved, not only when starting out, but all along. Having won this reputation, we should see that it is maintained, and the price of course will be maintained accordingly. This may look extraordinary to the hon. member for St. John and Albert (Mr. Baxter). I admit that it looks to be exacting legislation. If we produced a low grade of eggs of course we would not want legislation of this character. People would gather eggs to-day or to-morrow or next week, and bring them in any old time and send them away any old time. If we did not care how they arrived at their destination, we would not require any law at all. But the moment the market demands a high product, and we find our competitors are producing a high product, we require restrictions which may look ridiculous to a layman or to one not closely associated with the trade. I think my hon. friend from his standpoint may look upon it as quite nonsensical, but I assure him that if he were a dealer in eggs he could find that the quality of eggs obtained at the present time at home or anywhere else is infinitely better

9 p.m. than it was years ago. This is proven by the fact that the average consumption of eggs in Canada is ten dozen per capita more than it was five years ago. Now men do not eat ten dozen more eggs because they are of a worse quality than formerly, but they eat them because they are better. Consequently we have raised the standard, not only for home consumption but for the foreign market, and I think we should try to still further improve the quality of eggs.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

John Babington Macaulay Baxter

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BAXTER:

I do not refer to eggs

alone; but in the case of the country merchant in the province of New Brunswick who buys up a lot of poultry at seasonable times, for instance at Christmas, if he sends a few hundred pounds by express to some dealer in Boston he is an exporter of eggs. Where is that man to go in order to get a license to 9ell a few hundred pounds of poultry? The minister has become obsessed with the idea of the British market. That may be all right for certain purposes, but it is not every man who sends products to the British market on a high scale. There may be small exporters, but the moment a man goes into the exporting class he has to get a license and pay a fee, even if he only sends a few hundred pounds of poultry to Boston in a year. That is infernal nonsense, and all the argument in the world would not convince me to the contrary.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I have attended the annual meetings of the Poultry Dealers' Association in Montreal and in Toronto, and the exporters themselves have urged this legislation, in order to keep the derelicts out of the business-the men who are prejudicially affecting our trade. When you find the exporter asking to be licensed, it is not likely that that feature of it is going to worry him. The country merchant to whom my hon. friend refers, if not an exporter, will not be affected in any way.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

John Babington Macaulay Baxter

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BAXTER:

He will become an exporter the moment he sends out a few hundred pounds.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Five carloads of

turkeys from the west were sent down to Montreal last year, and because of bad preparation, the turkeys not being properly dressed or graded they were not acceptable at all on the Christmas market. Their grading was held up by the purchasing agent at Montreal, with the result that they were held on the track for .ome time, and they were sold for ten cents less per pound than should have been realized for them, on account of the improper dressing and the delay. They were not properly dressed poultry. Now it takes the dealers two or three years to live down the reputation they get from one consignment of bad poultry. Surely you do not want to take up time discussing the scallawag produce dealer who does not care what his reputation is so long as he is making a profit out of the business. I am trying to legislate for all classes, but particularly the mam who grows the turkey and the man who eats it. All well ordered society has middlemen ; I am anxious to see that they get a square deal as well, and when they come to me and ask that they be licensed in order to keep bums out of the trade I feel like complying with their request.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink
CON

John Babington Macaulay Baxter

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BAXTER:

The minister has not impressed me very much yet. He is taking care of the consumer, and is taking care of everybody else in the world, and reminds me, in his efforts, more of a brooding hen than anything else.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   LIVE STOCK AND LIVE STOCK
Sub-subtopic:   PRODUCTS ACT, 1923, AMENDMENT
Permalink

June 1, 1925