May 1, 1925

LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

That is not the opinion of the officers of the department.

Topic:   PUBLICATION OF THE STATUTES
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Section agreed to. Section 17 agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed.


WAR CHARITIES ACT


Hon. A. B. OOPP (Secretary of State) moved the second reading of Bill No. 47, to repeal the War Charities Act. Motion agreed to, bill read the second time, and the House went into committee thereon, Mr. Gordon in the chair. On section 1-Act repealed.


CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

In introducing this bill

the minister explained that the act was intended for war-time only, or rather for the time usually embraced in that term, and that its usefulness had now been extinguished by time. The purpose of the law was, as I recall it, to keep some supervision over the creation and operation of various charities which were making insistent appeals to the public under the pressure of war influences, and imposing in very considerable degree upon the public. The act provided for registration of those societies, for returns from time to time of what they were doing, and generally protected the public against unnecessary and perhaps dishonest appeals. The minister explained that there was now only a small portion of these societies in existence which sprang up in that period, and of that small portion a great part was composed of the

I.O.D.E.'s-Imperial Order of Daughters of the Empire. I quite agree that, as respects that association, at the present day there would be no need of supervision, but there might be need as to others. Perhaps the minister would tell us how many others there are, what they are, and about what the extent of their operations is.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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LIB

Arthur Bliss Copp (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. COPP:

My hon. friend is right in

regard to the purposes of the act. It was intended during the war to keep a supervision over the operations of these various charities and to prevent them making appeals for charitable purposes and perhaps defrauding and imposing upon the public. During the time the war was on there were 846 charitable associations registered in the department for

Publication of Statutes

this work. Since the close of the war 631 have been removed from the register, leaving outstanding 175. Of these outstanding 143 are chapters of the Imperial Order of the Daughters of the Empire. Thirty-two others are outstanding.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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CON
LIB

Arthur Bliss Copp (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. COPP:

I have not the names of the

organizations. Officials of the department tell me that there is very little being done in any of the organizations except the Daughters of the Empire, and that there will be no need to continue the supervision provided for by the act. The act imposes considerable work on these organizations. They have to make returns to the department every six months of the money they collect and what they do with it. It was thought it was no longer necessary to continue it in force. It is imposing a burden upon the associations.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I can see the wisdom of relieving the Daughters of the Empire of an unnecessary obligation, but I should like to know what the other charities are before taking the hand of control off them altogether. There is no doubt at all that some years ago there was a great deal of imposition on the public- and there would be yet if there were not supervision-by these various charitable organizations. A large section of the public and unfortunately the very best section of the public, is very readily imposed upon; and, without question, the control which was exercised protected many people against possible fraud and certainly imposition approaching fraud. It may be quite true that very little is done now, but is it not likely that that is due to the fact that the supervision and control is there, and consequently people do not try to continue in that line? Would it not be better to pass legislation enabling the Governor in Council to relieve the Daughters of the Empire from the obligation, and at the same time maintain the power of control in the way in which it at present exists? I do not see any need of repealing the whole act.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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LIB

Arthur Bliss Copp (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. COPP:

There is no particular need

of repealing the whole act, if the House thinks it better to have the control of these few other organizations outstanding. I have not the names of the organizations, but I shall be glad to get them for my right hon. friend on the third reading, if that is satisfactory, or if ihe so desires, I have no objection to letting the bill stand.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

We might rise, report

progress and ask leave to sit again, for this reason. If the minister brings the list of

[Mr, Copp.j

these organizations, it might appear that the wise course would -be to give the Governor in Council power to relieve from making report such organizations as he decides. I know that would enable the Governor in Council to repeal the act; but if the list were before the House, the House might see fit to leave the control as respects all and sundry and' especially as respects new creations, because without question there would have been many more of these organizations over the 800 if it had not been for the check placed upon them by the statute.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

I am just reminded that

to-day or yesterday in the mail I received a circular-and this is a typical illustration of the point to which my right hon. leader is referring-of some institution or association in Toronto appealing for funds for the relief of starving children in Armenia. What struck me when I received this circular was this. I suppose the most notorious impositions and frauds have been perpetrated upon the people of Canada by persons purporting to be sponsors for the relief of Armenians. I do not know of any part of the world in connection with which more fraud has been perpetrated in the name of charity. Of course in some cases, perhaps many, the objects are ven meritorious and deserving. I wonder if the minister has received a similar circular, and if this is one of the charities that is now under control or license or whatever the form is. I wonder further whether any officer has actually investigated these people-they may be first class; I know nothing of them -to see whether they are truly meritorious. As I have already intimated, a frightful amount of fraud has been perpetrated on the people of Canada by spurious institutions purporting to be working on behalf of suffering humanity in some part of the world.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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LIB

Arthur Bliss Copp (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. COPP:

A copy of this circular may have come to the department, but I have not received one. I have no desire to press this legislation. My object is merely to get what would be best for all the charitable organizations that are doing work in this country and to protect as far as possible all the people who are giving to charity. The suggestion made by my right hon. friend might be a very reasonable one, to consider changing the act to such an extent that the Governor in Council could relieve certain organizations from giving reports. My right hon. friend desires to get some information with regard to some 32 organizations. In the meantime we can report progress.

Dairy Produce Act

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I should like to make a suggestion in connection with the Daughters of the Empire. The position of my hon. friend, I understand, is that the reason this bill is brought forward is that the Imperial Order of the Daughters of the Empire have many different organizations, and it is a hardship upon them and an expense to them to be compelled to make these reports.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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?

Albert James Smith Copp

Mr. OOPP:

One hundred and forty-three.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Of course we

know this is a very meritorious institution. The act itself defines war charities, mentioning " any fund, institution or association, other than a church or the Salvation Army." It starts out with some exceptions, and perhaps there are some later on. What I would suggest to my hon. friend is that he could well amend his bill and do what he wants to do in respect of helping the Daughters of the Empire by inserting after the word " army " in the second line of paragraph (b) of section 2, the words: "The Imperial Order of the Daughters of the Empire ". This would exempt them from the provisions of the act.

Progress reported.

Topic:   WAR CHARITIES ACT
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DAIRY PRODUCE ACT AMENDMENT


Hon. W. R. MOTHERWELL (Minister of Agriculture) moved that the House go into committee to consider the following proposed resolution: That it is expedient to amend the Dairy Produce Act, chapter 28 of the statutes of 1921, by providing that the Governor in Council shall have power to make regulations for refusing to grade dairy produce and for withholding grade certificates.


CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I really do not know

whether this is very contentious or not, but coming as it does from the Minister of Agriculture, the presumption is that it is.

Topic:   DAIRY PRODUCE ACT AMENDMENT
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I do not think it

will be contentious.

Topic:   DAIRY PRODUCE ACT AMENDMENT
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May 1, 1925