March 13, 1925

LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Some of them were not finished until quite a while after the war. But here were these boats, free to be turned loose on the north Atlantic to reduce rates; and when the high commissioner asked the Prime Minister of the day to do it it was not done. They belonged to the north Atlantic conference and they were put on other routes; they were not used to break the freight rates on the north Atlantic. Now we are asked why we do not do it. There are two or three reasons, and I may help my right hon. friend out of the hole a little before I get through.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I am not in it.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Badly. It is a great thing to feel happy-

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I am glad I am not in the government's hole.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

And my right hon. friend

will not be for ,a great many years. At present the merchant marine ships are on established routes, that is, the ships that are capable of carrying large cargoes at reasonable rates. This government came in and found these ships. We were not responsible for the Canadian Government Merchant Marine which cost three or four times as much as it would now; but there the ships were, with a heavy capital expenditure, .and they had been handed over to the Canadian National Railways just a short time before. They were not in charge

of the minister who built them; Ithey were shifted over to another department. Unfortunately I was put at the head of that department. The management of the Canadian National Railways have been sending these ships over different routes throughout the world, getting away as far as possible from keen competition, because they could not in some circumstances compete with the faster ships or ships better adapted to -certain cargoes. New trade routes have been worked out that are of benefit to the Dominion of Canada. I asked one of the members from British Columbia !the other day, when he was talking about taking the ships off routes that were not paying-he did not say anything like that in 1921 when there were practically no routes established-I asked him if he would allow us Ito take the ships off the route that had been established between eastern 'Canada and1 Vancouver, and he immediately said no. These ships at the present moment are not paying but we are developing an interprovincial trade by water to the benefit of both extremes of the Dominion of Canada, and in a short time I believe they will bring a profit to the merchant marine as well as great good to the country.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

If the minister will allow me, I suggest that he may develop the ends and choke the centre through the custom house regulations at New York.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Now my hon. friend is running away to the Customs department. These ships do not need the Customs department. My hon. friend would want us to ship goods via American bottoms to New York. Well, we are trying to develop an all-Canadian route with the merchant marine that does not have to go to New York.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

I do not wish to interrupt the minister, but I would remind him that I myself advocated last year just such a service as he is now speaking of, and it was advocated by others also. It was promised by the Minister of Customs (Mr. Bureau) who is unfortunately not in his seat. But will the minister tell the House when this service between Vancouver and eastern Canada by water was established? I understood him to say it had been established; am I correct?

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Surely.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

When was it established and what does it consist of?

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

I am not prepared to give those details. But it is carrying all the traffic that is offered and is prepared to increase the number of sailings as the traffic increases.

Ocean Shipping Rates

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

When was that service established?

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Some months ago.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

Are there regular sailings?

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Whenever there is freight there are sailings.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

That is, there are no regular sailings?

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

I would not say that My hon. friend can say it if he likes. We are trying to establish-

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

John Arthur Clark

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARK:

I do not want the minister to misunderstand me; I am only asking for information with regard to the service that my hon. friend is referring to. Of course, if he does not want to give the information, all right.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

That is not a good way to put it. I might put it in such a way as to suggest a little surprise at my hon. friend living in Burrard and not knowing the steamship sailings, but I do not want to say that; we are trying to discuss this without manhandling each other. I say the Canadian merchant marine has put on a service between eastern and western Canada via the Panama canal and is prepared to increase that service as the traffic is offered. Then we have other sailings from Vancouver; we have sailings to the Orient, sailings to Australia. Who is to say we ought to take these ships off and put them on the north Atlantic, even if they could be used to reduce freight rates on the north Atlantic.

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

Are they not paying?

Topic:   OCEAN SHIPPING RATES
Subtopic:   AGREEMENT WITH SIR WILLIAM PETERSEN- MOTION FOR RATIFICATION DISCUSSED
Permalink

March 13, 1925