March 3, 1925

LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Well, if we could get free trade altogether it would do; but that is impossible in this world. There is something else besides silks that comes over here, and it may surprise some of our people to learn this. While we are continually talking about spirituous liquors being exported to the United States, there is a large quantity coming into Canada from that country at the present time, mostly in the form of alcohol. Although perhaps on the Detroit river and in that vicinity there is not much reciprocity in the imports and exports of liquor, in one or two other parts of Canada there are coming in to-day large quantities of alcohol. This alcohol I know was recently tested and was found good in every respect, and it was placed in the stores of men in the big cities, merchants who are permitted by law to sell alcohol, and they can sell this at a price less than half what they would have to pay for the same alcohol if they purchased it legally in Canada.

Something else that calls for a remedy is the considerable traffic which is taking place illegally in the whiskey business between Canada and the United States. In 1922, at the request of the provinces, this parliament enacted an amendment to the Canada Temperance Act by which on the request of the provinces, through order in council, certain authority vested in the federal parliament was to be handed over to the provinces. Through this authority the control of the export of liquor can be put into practical effect by the provinces themselves. But to my mind there has been something lacking up to the present time to give that legislation full effect, and we hope the deficiency will be supplied by this treaty. Therefore, if the provinces interested would take advantage of the legislation of 1922, with the power therein conferred supplemented by the provisions of this treaty, they could, I believe, bring about a far better state of affairs in the border localities between Canada and the United States. We are hoping that this improvement will be brought about, because I am free to say that at present there are towns in Ontario which, although the people from the town council down hold strong temperance views, are being made ports of export for whiskey manufactured legally, but peddled illegally. If this result is accomplished, then I say the treaty will be worth while.

Canada-U.S. Smuggling Treaty

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. L. J. LADNER (Vancouver South):

Does the treaty better ensure the payment of excise duties in any way? It is common knowledge in British Columbia that large shipments of liquor take place presumably to Mexico or South America, but after being taken out into the gulf a short distance they are brought back into Vancouver or tihe adjoining districts and are sold at much lower prices than those charged by the provincial government. This is said to be due to the excise duties being evaded in the bonded warehouses under present arrangements.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Under this treaty the officers are given power to refuse clearance if in their judgment the vessels are not of sufficient capacity or are not intended to land their cargoes at the port for which they clear.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

Why could not the excise

duty be assessed and the exporters be given a refund upon evidence of delivery of their cargoes at the ports for which they were given clearance? That would certainly ensure the government getting the duty.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

I do not think that is in the treaty.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
PRO

John Morrison

Progressive

Mr. JOHN MORRISON (Weybum):

The Minister of Railways (Mr. Graham), in speaking for the Minister of Customs (Mr. Bureau) stated that his colleague was going to ask for the privilege of going over the head of the Civil Service Commission in order to secure a competent staff to better enforce the laws against smuggling. I do not think he paid much of a compliment to the civil service. In my opinion something should be done to improve the standard-

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

Might I interject that the suggestion comes largely from the Manufacturers' Association. They are very deeply interested in the prevention of smuggling.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
PRO

John Morrison

Progressive

Mr. MORRISON:

Well, I am going to

offer a suggestion also. I would suggest that in the examinations for the civil service applicants should be examined as to their integrity as well as their ability to pass written examinations.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

How will the

hon. member examine any man as to his integrity?

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
PRO

John Morrison

Progressive

Mr. MORRISON:

If the Prime Minister

will answer my question he will find the answer to his own. If the Prime Minister were at the head of a big business concern, would he tell the House that he would not

examine into the integrity of any applicant for a position of responsibility? Certainly he would.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

By written

examination?

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
PRO

John Morrison

Progressive

Mr. MORRISON:

You would go about it in the same way as the head of any business concern.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I would remind the hon. member that the Civil Service Commission advertise vacancies, hold written examinations and make appointments. How, under such a system, could the commission test a man's integrity?

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
PRO

John Morrison

Progressive

Mr. MORRISON:

The Civil Service Commission examinations do not go far enough. Men get into the civil service who are absolutely unfitted for the work they 4 p.m. have to do and are a menace both to the service, and to the public, but once they get in it is impossible to get them out. The minister's statement proves that there are inefficients in the service. No member likes to get up and cite a case near home, but we know of men who could not get a job with a good firm who get into the civil service, and then no power in Canada can get them out. They should be investigated as to their integrity, the same as any business concern would investigate them, and if they had not a good clean record they should not be considered for a moment.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

Mr. Speaker, with

respect to the enforcement of the law against smuggling, when we were discussing the Royal Canadian Mounted Police a couple of sessions ago it was said that we needed this body to enforce the laws of the Dominion. Do I understand that they are not fitted for doing this kind of work?

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Carried.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LAB

James Shaver Woodsworth

Labour

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

May I have an

answer as to whether the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is to be reinforced by still another police force?

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I might remind the hon. member and the House that we are not in committee of the Whole, and consequently no one except the mover may speak twice on the motion. By unanimous consent of the House I am willing to let the minister answer, but questions are being put by hon.

Canada-UJS. Smuggling Treaty

members which, strictly speaking, are not according to the rules.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink
CON

William Garland McQuarrie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. G. McQUARRIE (New Westminster) :

Mr. Speaker, I do not see how it is possible to stop smuggling if we leave our doors open at night. That is actually the case in some parts of the Dominion. According to my latest information, that statement is correct in respect of British Columbia. On the Pacific highway and on other roads in my constituency leading to the United States, on which the principal traffic between the two countries takes place, the customs officers both of Canada and the United1 States are not on duty after one o'clock in the morning. Neither government provides a sufficient staff to attend to the business. Now, perhaps the man who goes in for smuggling should do so in the day time, but usually he does not, his favourite time is at night, and there is nothing in the world to prevent him from smuggling as much as he likes along those roads in the night-time. If my information is correct, there is something wrong with the administration. If you want to stop smuggling you will have to have a staff on duty at night as well as in the day time, because smugglers are active at night. Now what is wrong with the administration if the statements I am making are true, and I think they are? Why cannot this government and the government of the United States do business in a businesslike way, and put on sufficient staffs to prevent smuggling along the principal roads in any event?

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES SMUGGLING TREATY
Permalink

March 3, 1925