February 16, 1925

LIB
CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I have said that it is a

matter of first-class news importance that any factory Should be working full time. My hon. friend says the Dominion Textile Company is not working full time, and although it is not working full time, he gets up to make a point of the prosperity of this institution that has not got enough business to give its employees full-time work.

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LIB

Willis Keith Baldwin

Liberal

Mr. BALDWIN:

Is not ninety per cent a

large average?

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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

It is a pretty good average, but my hon. friend will find, if he goes into the textile business, that that is one of the very few factories that are working full time. Let him go to the knitting mills of this country and find out if they are working full time.

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LIB

Willis Keith Baldwin

Liberal

Mr. BALDWIN:

Let me give my hon.

friend the words of a large manufacturer just one week ago. He told me that the woollen business was first-class, and his business is not sixty miles from where we are.

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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I invite my hon. friend

to reply to my remarks. He will have ample opportunity unless he, like my hon. friends to my left, has a handkerchief stuck in his mouth to prevent him speaking any more. He will have a chance later on to speak in this debate.

There is one other subject that causes me some concern. I attended a luncheon during September of last year, where I heard Sir Henry Thornton make a speech, and I was greatly impressed with one remark that he made. He said; "I think the government of Canada should find the biggest and most capable man there is in 'this country and put him in charge of immigration." Nothing, he said, " is required in this country so much as immigration." Well, what have we got? We have no Minister of Immigration in charge of this important work, according to Sir Henry Thornton, and I am sure the Minister of Railways (Mr. Graham) will agree that Sir Henry Thornton is one of the greatest authorities we have in this country on colonization,

transportation and so on; yet we have no [DOT]man at all as head of the Immigration department, looking after the immigration interests of this country. My hon. friend (Mr. Robb) who is the titular head of that department is also Acting Minister of Finance. I would like the House to consider whether a man who has to perform the arduous duties of Minister of Finance, without having the twenty years of experience that the titular minister of that department possesses, has not got enough to do looking after that department alone? Has he any time to attend to immigration? I wonder if my hon. friend the Acting Minister of Finance ever goes into the Immigration department? I would' not expect him to, Mr. Speaker. Well then, the work is left entirely in the hands of officials without any directing head, and without any government policy so far as I can discover. And when you get into the department what do you find? Why, they let a man go who had experience, who had capacity, who showed himself efficient in the performance of his duties. He was shifted out into the Canadian National Railways Colonization Department, and a man brought in in his place who had been a trade commissioner in South Africa, a man absolutely without experience in immigration.

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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I infer that my hon. friend is

trying to create the impression that Dr. Black, the former Deputy Minister of Immigration, was crowded out. Let me say now that Dr. Black voluntarily resigned as Deputy Minister of Immigration, and acting for the government I asked him if he would accept an increase of salary and stay on. He said, "No, I am offered more than the government will allow you to pay, Mr. Robb." And I have Dr. Black's letter expressing regret that he had left the government service.

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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I am very glad to hear

that from the Minister of Immigration, and I give him full credit. I express my appreciation of that treatment of a man of Mr. Black's capacity. But, surely, after he had gone there were men in the department who had had experience, who had had knowledge of all that had gone forward, and who would have been more acceptable to follow him. I do not know anything personally about the present Deputy Minister of Immigration, I have never met him; but surely experience is required in the deputy head of any department of the government, and why a man should be brought from South Africa to act as deputy minister over an important department of that kind it is difficult for me to understand.

The Address-Mr. Hocken

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

My hon. friend has referred to the fact that there was no minister in charge of immigration, and to the present Deputy Minister of Immigration. I think it is a great thing in favour of this government that we have a man of sufficient ability to look after two departments under the leadership of the Prime Minister. What is the fault with Mr. Egan, the present Deputy Minister of Immigration? Will my hon. friend come out in the open and tell us his reason?

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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I am giving the only reason I have.

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LIB
CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

Mr. Speaker, will the hon. gentleman accept my word?

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

Certainly; I respect the hon. member.

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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I say it is a mistake to

take a man without experience and put him in the most responsible position in a department of that kind. I do not think you can get

away from it. It is a position that requires

experience.

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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

There might seem to be some colour to the impression my hon. friend would give, to one who does not know the conditions as I know them. The reason why a man was brought from the Department of Trade and Commerce and made Deputy Minister of the Department of Immigration was that I discovered there was so much jealously in the department among the higher heads that some of them were not speaking to each other.

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LIB
CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

We are not getting

immigration. My hon. friend the Acting Minister of Finance evidently had not sufficient courage to exercise his own judgment and say: Here is the man for the job.

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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

That is exactly what I did

do.

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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I do not see it that way. I agree with Sir Henry Thornton that there is nothing so important in this country at the present time as a well-devised and energetically pursued immigration policy. If we could get fifty per cent more of the right type of .people into Canada than we have at the present time it would solve every problem that is facing our country to-day.

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LIB

George William Kyte

Liberal

Mr. KYTE:

Would it not open more soup kitchens?

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February 16, 1925