June 26, 1923

LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

So far as

the minister is concerned it might happen tomorrow. I am not, however, speaking for the government in that regard.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It is just as likely to

happen to-morrow as it was eighteen months ago.

Bill reported, read the third time and

passed.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL
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BOARD OF AUDIT


House again in committee on Bill No. 243, to constitute a Board of Audit.


LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

When this bill was about to be reported last evening I mentioned that there was a small amendment of a purely formal character which I was unable to find at the moment. It is simply this: I move to add as paragraph 17 the following:-

Any expenditure necessary to carry out the provisions of this act shall be made out of any unappropriated moneys forming part of the Consolidated Revenue Fund.

That is the usual course.

Topic:   BOARD OF AUDIT
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Amendment agreed to.


IND

William Charles Good

Independent Progressive

Mr. GOOD:

There are no copies of the bill distributed as yet, Mr. Chairman.

Topic:   BOARD OF AUDIT
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

I think the bill must be found on the files. It has been printed for several days. The bill is simply a transcript of the resolution which was on the order paper for some days.

Bill reported, read the third time and passed.

Topic:   BOARD OF AUDIT
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BOUNTIES ON MANILA FIBRE


Hon. W. S. FIELDING (Minister of Finance) moved the second reading of Bill No. 188, to repeal the acts respecting bounties on manufactures from manila fibre in Canada. Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and the House went into committee thereon, Mr. Gordon in the chair. On section 1-Bounties on binder twine and cordage repealed.


IND

William Charles Good

Independent Progressive

Mr. GOOD:

Would the minister state

briefly the purpose and effect of this legislation?

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON MANILA FIBRE
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

The Act which it is proposed to repeal was passed some years ago, arising out of a then existing condition in relation to the export of manila fibre from the Philippine Islands. At that time an ad-* vantage was given to the United States and for compensation this bounty act was then passed. In later years the condition has entirely changed and no bounty has been paid for some years. It is practically a dead issue, but we thought it better to have the act repealed.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON MANILA FIBRE
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Section agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed.


BOUNTIES ON COPPER BARS OR RODS


Hon. W. S. FIELDING (Minister of Finance) moved the second reading of Bill No. 189 respecting the payment of bounties on copper bars or rods. Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and the House went into committee thereon, Mr. Gordon in the chair. On section 1-Short title.


LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

This matter was very fully considered when the resolution was before the House and I do not think any further explanation is required at this stage.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON COPPER BARS OR RODS
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Section agreed to. On section 3-Limitation.


LIB

Andrew Ross McMaster

Liberal

Mr. McMASTER:

I beg in connection

with clause 3 to move an amendment by adding a clause 3A. I regret that I have not had an opportunity to prepare a copy for the Minister of Finance, but I will send over my original to him forthwith.

I am utterly opposed to this bounty business. I think it is eminently unsound. I think the business men who want to start business in this country, if they have got a meritorious proposition should reap the benefits and run the risks. In this case we encourage people to ask the state to help. The state runs the risk while others receive all the benefits. That being the case I move:

That the following paragraph be added to paragraph 3 to be known as paragraph 3A:

3A. Any amount so paid out shall be considered as advances by way of loan to those receiving the same and shall be repayable to the Crown as follows: One-fifth of the amount received on the 1st

Bounties on Copper Bars

day of July, 1930; one-fifth on the 1st day of July, 1931; one-fifth on the 1st day of July, 1932; one-fifth on the 1st day of July, 1933; one-fifth on the 1st day of July. 1934; with interest on any overdue instalment at the rate of six per cent per annum. Any failure to pay any instalment when the same falls due shall cause subsequent instalments at the option of the Governor in Council to become due.

Now, if there is any merit in the bounty system the amendment gives to these people who want to make copper bars an opportunity of using the public money without interest for some considerable time, but the interest of the public will be protected to this extent: If the proposal works out well and the company that receives this bounty continues in existence, one of the first charges upon it will be the repayment to the people of the amount advanced by the state. We have seen, in connection with the bounties that were paid on iron and steel in Nova Scotia, the company re-organized from time to time on fictitious capital, and we have seen them from time to time paying dividends on that fictitious capital, thus capitalizing again the benefits that the people gave them. I wish, if possible, to avoid such an eventuality, and, therefore, I humbly and respectfully submit this resolution for the approval of the House.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON COPPER BARS OR RODS
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

One of the rules of the House is that an amendment must be relevant. I submit that this amendment does not come within that rule. The House has already resolved that certain bounties, certain grants of money, shall be made under the conditions specified. The hon. gentleman's amendment entirely negatives that proposition. The amendment proposes that the grant be converted into a loan. I submit, therefore, that it is not relevant and is not in order.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON COPPER BARS OR RODS
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I do not know that I have any special interest in the amendment, but I have in the rules of the House. I take very direct exception to the appeal of the Minister of Finance. I cannot conceive of anything that is more relevant than the present amendment. The House has resolved that aid be given, that grants be made, to this industry, but that does not in the least restrict the power of the committee to amend the bill pursuant thereto. If that be so, what is the use of having first a resolution and then a bill-why not just have the one? Both are subject to amendment. The grant is made but the amendment makes it subject to return, that is all.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON COPPER BARS OR RODS
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June 26, 1923