June 5, 1923

PRIVATE BILLS FIRST READINGS


Bill No. 193 (from the Senate), for the relief of Lillian Beryl Brayman.-Mr. Ryck-man. Bill No. 194 (from the Senate), for the relief of Roland Bergeron.-Mr. Carruthers. Bill No. 195 (from the Senate), for the relief of Florence Cohn.-Mr. Church. Dairy Industry Act


THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN

LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Hon. W. R. MOTHERWELL (Minister of Agriculture) moved:

That the Order of the House for the second reading of Bill No. 186, an act to amend The Dairy Industry Act, 1914, be discharged and the said bill withdrawn.

He said: On the occasion when this bill

was before the House last week I made a fairly full explanation of the reasons why I ask that this motion be carried, and I do not think it calls for any further explanation at this time.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Right Hon. ARTHUR MEIGHEN (Leader of the Opposition):

This bill has rather a

checkered history, which I think should be reviewed. The bill was introduced pursuant to a resolution about a week ago. As introduced it provided merely for certain corrections in the Dairy Industry Act of 1914. The corrections were of a minor character, rather numerous in total, but none of them of far-reaching consequence. The minister, on introducing the resolution and carrying it through committee, told the House that there was nothing in the bill respecting oleomargarine at all. He did so in response to a query from the hon. member for Victoria City (Mr. Tolmie): Nor was there in such bill any

reference to oleomargarine. The subsection which dealt with that subject in the original act of 1914 was left intact. That was the form in which the resolution went through, and the form in which the bill was introduced and was passed on by this House for a second reading. If there is any rule of parliament that is obvious, and that at the same time is vital, it is that when parliament passes an act, first,

second and third reading, or any stage, the act remains as so passed by parliament, until varied by parliament.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Is my right hon. friend not mistaken in saying "second reading"?

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I said "first." The bill received only a first reading.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

The right hon. member said "second reading."

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

If so, I should have said first. The preceding resolution doubtless received its regular readings. The bill was introduced and read a first time only. Having been read a first time, the bill so read was the bill before the House and that was appointed for second reading, and no other bill. Rule 53 of this House provides that bills when read shall be certified by the

Clerk of the House in order that the terms of the bill so read may be officially stated and officially known. The time for second reading arrived; the Order of the Day was called by the government on Thursday last, and instead of moving the second reading, the minister rose and stated as follows:

Owing to certain changes having been made by parliamentary counsel in the drafting of this bill which while not changing the meaning of the measure, make it more different and more difficult to explain, I mew that the bill be discharged from the order paper with a view of redrafting and resubmisson to the House.

Whereupon I asked the minister:

Will the minister explain how the bill is mo* difficult to explain if the meaning is not changed?

I invite the attention of the House to the minister's repfy. This is an example of vacuous profundity which I do not think has any parallel in the annals of parliament:

As drafted by parliamentary counsel portions of the former bill were inserted that were not in the bill submitted to me.

Does any hon. gentleman know what that means? In the first place, after a bill passes this House a first reading, . parliamentary counsel has nothing to do with it. It is the bill as passed that comes up for second reading. In the next place, what should come up for second reading was all that was in the bill as passed. But the minister says that parliamentary counsel put in the bill something that was in it before and that was not submitted to him. I really do not know what was in the minister's mind and I have sought, though sought in vain, to delve to the bottom of it. He proceeded:

That makes the bill appear quite different from what was contemplated, and the intention of the draftsman and counsel would be more difficult to explain.

Subsequently the minister proceeded to read the bill as printed, for the bill as printed differs wholly from the bill as passed. The bill as printed provided a clause excluding oleomargarine from Canada in the plainest possible terms. I have the bill before me, and it says:

Section 5 of the said act is repealed, and the following is substituted therefor:

This is the new bill:

5. No person shall-(a) manufacture, import into Canada, or offer, sell or have in his possession for sale, any oleomargarine, margarine, butterine, or other substitute for butter, manufactured wholly or in part from any fat other than that of milk or cream.

The minister's explanation of the meaning of this addition, which he says was inserted by parliamentary counsel after the bill was read a first time, is really equally interesting. The minister told the House that the bill

Dairy Industry Act

had been so changed that, as it stood now, it appeared to authorize the manufacture or sale of oleomargarine.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

That should be "prohibit."

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It should have read "prohibit"?

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I think you will find that is corrected in the revised Hansard.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I will read those words:

Notwithstanding that, however, on the face of it the bill as now drafted appears as if we were authorizing the manufacture or sale of oleomargarine.

The minister now says that he should have said "prohibit."

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

In the revised Hansard my hon. friend will find it reads that way.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

On the next page I find the same thing repeated, so the minister duplicated his mistake. Perhaps, as is suggested from behind me, that is on the principle that two negatives would make an affirmative.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

It does not affect the situation, anyway.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It affects the minister. The minister says at page 3456:

Yet I find another bill on the order paper apparently authorizing the manufacture of oleomargarine.

He used the word "authorized" for "prohibit" twice, in two separate speeches four or five pages apart. I do not know what was wrong with the minister.' I could not understand his explanation then.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

That is the reason why I wanted a new bill.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

He made no explanation. He simply either deliberately or otherwise befuddled the House. Why is he withdrawing this bill? What is the object of withdrawing it? The bill before this House is not the printed bill; the bill before this House is the Very bill which the minister introduced. Because something else is printed, that does not make it a bill of this House. I was not aware, when the discussion was on in the first place, of the actual facts. I sought to become aware by listening to the minister, but I made no progress.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

That is what I thought.

Topic:   THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ACT, 1914, AMENDMENT BILL No. 186 WITHDRAWN
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June 5, 1923