April 20, 1923

LIB

Georges Parent

Liberal

Mr. PARENT:

In addition to the questions which have already been asked I would like to know whether the minister has received representations from the Quebec Harbour Commission with regard to the establishment of a cold storage in that city. I understood from the representations made by these gentlemen that they Would have liked to have a cold storage plant under the Quebec harbour board, and for reasons which have not been considered convincing up to date, the department has refused to amend the law so as to include a cold storage in Quebec city, under the supervision of the Quebec Harbour Commission.

I would like to know if representations have been made to the minister, and the reasons he has to give for the refusal to give them favourable consideration.

Topic:   COLD STORAGE ACT AMENDMENT BILL
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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Such representations were made to myself and my deputy, and it looked as if the Quebec harbour board desired to put up a cold storage plant. They have a precedent in the case of Montreal, where they went direct to the government and got a vote of several million dollars for the purpose of putting up a cold storage plant in the harbour of Montreal. To take advantage of this little act to construct the cold storage under the auspices of the Quebec harbour board I am afraid would be going beyond the intentions of the act. I do not think, if I remember rightly, that we turned the deputation down flatly. We seldom do that. I did not know but that the government would come down in the supplementary estimates with several million dollars for cold storage and we might be able to accede to this request, but with only $50,000 available, and with the precedent of the Montreal harbour board constructing a cold storage plant, I did not think I was able to hold out any hope to the Quebec harbour board that they could build a cold storage plant out of this vote.

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CON

Thomas Henry Thompson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMPSON:

Does this resolution apply to the cooling of cheese in cheese factories and cold storages for cheese factories? A great many factories now are equipped with a cheese cooling room. Does this apply to factories where they wish to establish a cheese cooling room?

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Yes, that is one of the purposes in mind. I think in the hon. member's locality there are sufficient cold storages to take care of that business. However, if the co-operative institutions think differently,

I think the Hon. Manning Doherty has a proposition in mind for the purpose of co-operatively marketing cheese products? If he carries out his scheme, and there is a proposition for constructing cold storage plants under it, this provision will apply. So far as I know the situation at present under the Dairy Produce Act, I think there are sufficient cold storages in these centres to take care of the curing of the cheese which my hon. friend describes. It is quite possible this act may be invoked in other parts of Canada for the purpose he describes, in which case it will apply.

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CON

Thomas Henry Thompson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMPSON:

There seems to be a

disposition on the part of the government to centralize co-operative societies in the large cities. This storage I speak of is in the city of Belleville, and the cheese factories are scattered all over the country. A cold storage operated in the city is of no benefit to the dairymen. What they want is cold storage in connection with their cheese factories. They have managed their own business, and by having the cold storage in connection with the factory they can hold their cheese and sell it at whatever time they think best, and I am very sorry to say that this does not apply, and is of no benefit, to the dairymen of central Ontario. I wish to inform the minister that these people have unanimously turned down the Hon. Manning Doherty's project. They have no use whatever for it. They feel that they want to use their own brains and intelligence in conducting their business affaiis, and they would very much prefer to do so. On behalf of the dairymen, I wish to urge that this should apply to cheese factories, not to the central cold storage, which is owned by. a private individual, because it would be a great inconvenience and expense to ship the cheese to those central points. In the first place the rate would be a quarter of a cent per pound on the cheese, and it costs the dairymen hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to carry out the ideas expressed by the hon. minister. On behalf of the dairymen of my district I want to protest against it.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Well, Mr. Chairman, if we had abundance of money and the cheese factories were of a reasonable size, which they are not, it would be very nice to have a cold storage plant of some kind, or even a cooling plant, even if it were only by the use of ice, and not mechanical powei at all, in each individual factory, but to burden the different cheese factories with a cold storage proposition such as this would ruin them, instead of helping them. The time may come when we will have large creameries

Cold Storage Act

such as they have in Australia, but we cannot install a cold storage in a small cheese factory without it being too burdensome to the institution. I think possibly that would be the ideal system, but it is impossible for the reasons I have indicated.

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

Will the hon. minister

tell us what he intends to do regarding the establishment in the province of Nova Scotia of plants in which to experiment in regard to the cooling of fruit? We have a fruit growing country down there and I think at least we are entitled to something from the government for the encouragement of the fruit growing. The minister should do something in regard to experimentation there, if he does nothing else i know he wants to do everything possible, have every faith in the minister as have the nut growers of the province of Nova Scotia.

ft h,avev. eV,e,T. faith aIso in the government; but we should like to know what is going to be done towards experimentation in Nova Scotia Where this year fruit was practically thrown out ot doors, because we had no market, and the iruit rotted before we got it to the market.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I think one of the rs. Public acts that I was privileged to perform after coming down here, was to establish a pre-cooling plant in my hon. friend's constituency. Is it not Annapolis?

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

Hants.

to establish the very first one in Nova Scotia if they get busy before this amount of $50,000 is exhausted.

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

I do not want to delay this bill, because I am absolutely in sympathy with the minister in everything he is doing; but I believe not only what he is proposing now should be extended to co-operative people or to government institutions, but there should be some arrangement whereby private individuals could secure the advantage of subsidies, because often the way for co-operative and other work must be paved by private individuals undertaking the matter. People have become sick and tired, in many cases, of their experience in co-operative methods; and if a few private individuals would get together and form a company, say under the Nova Scotia Joint Stock Companies' Act, or in some other way, I believe the minister should be prepared to assist those people. If he does that, eventually we shall have in Nova Scotia the very finest methods of marketing fruit, because the minister knows that Nova Scotia has the finest quality of fruit in the world, and especially is this true of Hants.

Mr. WALT,ACE: I am not clear whether this applies to a pre-cooling plant operated by a co-operative society in connection with fruit or to a freezing plant in connection with fish.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Well, it was some-wheie m the apple district. Representations had been made to my department in the direction of a pre-cooling plant, just like the small creameries referred to by the hon. member for East Hastings (Mr. Thompson). This pre-cooling plant could not stand the expense ot a mechanical cold storage. Consequently it was supplied with ice-cooling appliances; but as this was done somewhat late in the year, the ice did not last as well although, as my hon. knows, the plant did excellent service We have, I think, established the faat that it is good business to pre-cool in such cases, and do not hon. members think the next step would be for individuals concerned to get together and take advantage of the act providing for mechanical storage. He know pre-cooling is all right. The next step for Nova Scotia or any other province would be to organize a co-operative company and to get into touch with the officers of my department to find out the various steps to be taken until they are organized, and then to take advantage of this act. That would be the proper way, and I would be delighted

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

This act applies to mechanical cold storage only. There is a matter I overlooked. There is in another act provision whereby a small grant of $100 for each factory can be applied for pre-cooling in just such institutions as were referred to by the hon. member for East Hastings. That is being taken advantage of. They obviously cannot put in anything except just straight ice or use what we call the brine system. That is not, however, what we are discussing here. This is mechanical storage; it can be used either for pre-cooling or for freezing.

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

Why is it proposed to take away from private individuals the benefit of this system?

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

We are not doing that. This is taken away now. The act as it is to-day applies only to municipalities. It was the late government that took it away from private institutions, and I think at that time they were correct. I have no criticism to make of them in that regard at all. The larger institutions built by private enterprise had received a great deal of assistance, and a new day has come now when

Cold Storage Act

we are introducing the idea of co-operative marketing more than ever. This co-operative marketing is going to be an outstanding feature of to-day. The private institutions have had their assistance. When they were deprived of this subsidy, it was extended for the last four years only to municipalities. We are extending it back again so as to include municipalities and co-operative associations. Therefore, this government is not the party that took the benefits of this act away from private concerns. My hon. friend, I .think, knows that.

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

I quite appreciate what the minister says; but he has probably noticed in this morning's Journal that the leader of the Conservative party in Nova Scotia has introduced a resolution in the provincial legislature towards secession. Prior to 1896 it was necessary to advocate secession in Nova Scotia, because at that time we were in dire straits, but we undoubtedly have hopes that under this administration, secession talk will soon die out, because we have every faith in the present party in power. Nevertheless the minister has said that the last government took away these rights from private individuals. Cannot the minister see some way clear whereby he can permit private individuals who have foresight enough and sufficient ' faith in Nova Scotia to establish private cold storage plants, again to take advantage of this act? They were given these benefits by the Hon. Sydney Fisher who, with the exception of the present Minister of Agriculture, was the greatest Minister of Agriculture this country ever had.

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CON

Thomas Henry Thompson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMPSON:

Has there been any request from any dairy organization such as the Dairymen's Association or the Cheese Board or from dairymen in general for this bill?

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I cannot recall them all just now; but representations have certainly been made from many sources that this should not be confined to an activity that does not take advantage of it. The fact that it was confined entirely to municipalities is because none of those subsidies has been used at all during the last four years. This shows pretty conclusively that the act as it now stands is a dead letter, and. therefore, some change must be made or the act repealed altogether.

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CON

Thomas Henry Thompson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMPSON:

The minister has, 1 think, evaded the question I asked. I asked if he had received any requests from the Dairymen's Association or from dairy organizations.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I do not recall being asked to make this change by any dairymens association; but surely the right is recognized of anybody responsible for a department to initiate something himself without waiting for somebody else to tell him what to do. I know this was asked for in two or three places.

If we always waited until somebody asked, that would not show great resourcefulness on our part.

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Section agreed to. On section 2: Section 4 of the said act is amended by adding thereto as subsection 2 the following: . f "(2) provided further that, in consideration of suen subsidyPThe owners of such cold borage warehouse shall execute in favour of the government of Canada a lien the terms and conditions whereof shall be prescribed by regulation under this act, on the said warehouse, to the full amount of such subsidy, such Hen to be held by the Minister of Agriculture m perpetuity as a security that such cold storage warehouse shall continue to be available for general pub lie use and be subject to the supervision provided and regnla tions prescribed by and under this act.


April 20, 1923