March 20, 1923

GREAT LAKES DISARMAMENT

LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

I beg to lay on the Table copy of papers, correspondence, documents, etc., passed between the government of Canada and the government of the United States relative to the Great Lakes disarmament question. This is the correspondence asked for by my right hon. friend the leader of the Opposition (Mr. Meighen) a few days ago. The return includes only such correspondence as took place betwen the termination of the war and the taking of office by the present administration. The correspondence that has taken place since relates to matters still under negotiation and is therefore not brought down at present.

Topic:   GREAT LAKES DISARMAMENT
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ALLEGED INCOMPLETE RETURN


On the Orders of the Day:


CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

On March 12 the House passed an order for return of all correspon-

Halibut Fisheries Treaty

dence, etc., between the Attorney General of British Columbia and the Solicitor General. The return contains one letter from the Attorney General in which the following occurs: "With reference to the above matter and my letter of the 16th," etc. Another letter indicates that a communication not included in the return had been sent by the Solicitor General; the reference is to "your letters of the 16th and 26th." I would respectfully direct the attention of the ministry to the fact that this return is incomplete and that the letter of the 16th ought to be brought down in compliance with the order of the House of March 12.

Topic:   ALLEGED INCOMPLETE RETURN
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

The Solicitor General (Mr. McKenzie) is not in his seat at the moment. I shall have pleasure in directing his attention to my hon. friend's remarks.

Topic:   ALLEGED INCOMPLETE RETURN
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PRIVILEGE-MR. BANCROFT


On the Orders of the Day:


PRO

Leland Payson Bancroft

Progressive

Mr. BANCROFT:

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of privilege. In the morning papers it is suggested that I supported the amendment moved last night by the hon. member for Comox-Albemi (Mr. Neill) to the titles resolution. I think you called my name, Mr. Speaker, as seconder, but I did not understand that that implicated me in any way. I may say that I took a geat deal of satisfaction in voting against both the amendment moved by the hon. member for Comox-Alberni and the main motion moved by the hon. member for Vancouver South (Mr. Ladner). I may say also that I take a great deal of pleasure in sharing this desk with the hon. member for Comox-Albemi, but I do not want to be put in any postiion where I have to support all his amendments or all his resolutions, or his bills on immigration.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BANCROFT
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LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I may say that I read the motion in amendment as being moved by the hon. member for Comox-Albemi and seconded by the hon. member for Selkirk (Mr. Bancroft). The names were written on the motion.

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PRO
LIB

Hewitt Bostock (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

As we say in French, "L'honneur est sauf." The incident is therefore closed.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE-MR. BANCROFT
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HALIBUT FISHERIES TREATY


On the Orders of the Day:


CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Right Hon. ARTHUR MEIGHEN (Leader of the Opposition):

I wish to refer to a return

[Mr. Stevens.)

brought down on Friday evening, for the purpose of asking a question of the ministry. The return embodies the correspondence relating to the recent signing of the Halibut Fisheries Treaty. By the return it is disclosed that the government has attempted to make a treaty binding only on the inhabitants and nationals of Canada on our part and on the inhabitants and nationals of the United States on the other, and it appears that in respect of the execution-the negotiations having been, properly, conducted by the Dominion-the courtesy of signature by the British Ambassador was denied by the Prime Minister and denied in the name of Canada. The result of the terms of the treaty and of its execution in this new fangled manner appears to have been a rider on the part of the United States Senate in its resolution of ratification, which rider provides that the treaty shall be applicable on our part as respects not only our nationals and our inhabitants but as respects also those of Great Britain. What I wish to put to the government is this: as the correspondence, according to the file brought down, closed on the fifth of March, and as the United States ratification is conditional on its application to Great Britain, whose sanction, of course, does not appear, owing to the absence of any signature representing the British government, what is the present position of the treaty? Will there be a treaty upon ratification by this House, and what is the intention of the government as respects the United States Senate's proviso on ratification?

Topic:   HALIBUT FISHERIES TREATY
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Minister of Marine and Fisheries):

I do not think that what my right hon. friend (Mr. Meighen) has called the rider will create any difficulty as to the ratification of the treaty. The United States senate ratified the treaty on the understanding that the nationals of "other parts of Great Britain"-the . phraseology is rather queer-would also be prevented from fishing for halibut in those waters. This is very easy to do. As far as the territorial waters are concerned both countries, the United States and Canada, will by legislation prevent any halibut fishing. As far as the extra-territorial waters are concerned no vessel from any country can carry on halibut fishing without using either United States or Canadian ports. It will be easy in the legislation which will have to be enacted by the United States Congress and by the parliament of Canada to close Canadian and American ports to any vessel carrying on halibut fishing. Consequently, I do not see any difficulty in the ratification of the treaty.

Oleomargarine

Topic:   HALIBUT FISHERIES TREATY
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Do I understand that tire Canadian government proposes to carry out the terms of a treaty which by the ratification is applicable to British citizens generally and not to Canadian nationals alone, by means of prohibitive Canadian legislation against other British citizens and not by securing the voluntary concurrence of those other citizens by means of the signature of the ambassador of Great Britain.

Topic:   HALIBUT FISHERIES TREATY
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

The Canadian legislation will apply to all the countries of the world. The fishing of halibut will be prohibited in those waters and the restrictions which will be enacted by the parliament of Canada will apply to everybody in the world.

Topic:   HALIBUT FISHERIES TREATY
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LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Liberal

Mr. S. W. JACOBS (George Etienne Cartier) :

I see a statement in the press this morning to the effect that this convention will not be considered completed until such time as the British government ratifies it. Will the government give us any information on this point?

Topic:   HALIBUT FISHERIES TREATY
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

I think probably there is a great deal of misuse of terms in some of the expressions that appear. Ratification is an act of the sovereign. No treaty will be complete until the sovereign has ratified it. I presume in regard to this treaty that His Majesty will act upon the advice of his government in this country, and such advice as the government will give His Majesty will be based upon the approval by this parliament of the legislation that is brought down.

Topic:   HALIBUT FISHERIES TREATY
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March 20, 1923