February 19, 1923

LAB

William Irvine

Labour

Mr. IRVINE:

How then do you manage to elect B by your illustration?

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LIB

Edward James McMurray

Liberal

Mr. McMURRAY:

C is elected by my illustration.

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LAB
LIB

Edward James McMurray

Liberal

Mr. McMURRAY:

C is the man elected, but he has not as many-

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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

May I interject a question?

I think this point ought to be made clear as it is' one of the most important in the whole matter: Before you distribute the low man's seconds do you not distribute first the excess over the quota of the high man?

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LIB
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

I do not wish to interrupt the speech of my hon. friend, I am wholly in sympathy with his view. I am not putting this forward with any idea of embarrassing my hon. friend, although the hon. members to my left hate to hear intelligent argument interjected into this question. One of the objections to this proposition in my estimation is the very point I am raising, and I should like my hon. friend in making his argument, which he has been doing very justly and fairly, to include this point: in the distribution of the votes, supposing A secured a larger number of votes than was necessary-

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LIB

Andrew Ross McMaster

Liberal

Mr. McMASTER:

I rise to a point of order. I understand by the rules of this House one member has not the right , to question another, and I do not think one member has the right to endeavour to coach another.

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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

I am asking my hon. friend a question, and if the hon. member for Brome (Mr. McMaster), who said a moment ago that he took his lead from the Conservative party, will follow that advice now, he will be well advised. In case A, or the man receiving the highest number of votes, had 50 votes above the quota necessary to elect him; then the 50 votes are distributed amongst the others before the low man drops out.

. Mr. McMURRAY: Yes.

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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

And that is done arbitrarily.

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LIB

Edward James McMurray

Liberal

Mr. McMURRAY:

The point I am making is that the second vote should not have the same value as the first vote. The second vote is a rambling vote. A man casts his vote. If he is a sane voter he will vote for the main issue, but his second vote is one thrown anywhere, and should not have the same value. It has not the real value which the first vote has.

40fi

Proportional Representation

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LAB

William Irvine

Labour

Mr. IRVINE:

Is it not the case that there are no bad votes in proportional representation? Does the hon. gentleman not mean choices instead of votes?

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LIB
LAB

William Irvine

Labour

Mr. IRVINE:

One choice is as good as another then.

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LIB

Edward James McMurray

Liberal

Mr. McMURRAY:

I fail to comprehend the distinction my hon. friend is trying to draw.

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LAB
LIB

Edward James McMurray

Liberal

Mr. McMURRAY:

That being the case we are bringing to the House of Commons a group of men who have been elected on issues that are not real paramount issues submitted to the electors. There is that great danger in proportional representation. The second point is that it is not consonant with our form of party government. You will find you will have a group of men, out of control of all kind, eccentric men, and in fact looking over the list of candidates it will be seen that that is so.

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PRO

Robert Alexander Hoey

Progressive

Mr. HOEY:

Will the hon. gentleman contend that candidates in the city of Winnipeg are inferior intellectually or in any other way to the candidates returned by the rural districts?

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LIB

Edward James McMurray

Liberal

Mr. McMURRAY:

They are not, in the federal House; I will admit that, but comparisons are always odious. What I mean is that they are men with eccentric ideas, men with ideas that are hobbies with them, and very often men with these ideas are men of marked intelligence and good character, but the point I am making is that the man with a hobby will be elected to a seat in parliament.

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PRO

John Livingstone Brown

Progressive

Mr. BROWN:

Might I ask another question?

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February 19, 1923