June 22, 1922


On the Orders of the Day:


CON

Thomas Langton Church

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. T. L. CHURCH (North Toronto):

I should like to ask the Government a couple of questions. What is being done for the families of twenty-two of the crew of the Canadian Government steamer Lambton that foundered in Georgian bay a couple of months ago with a loss of twenty-two of a crew? Some of the dependents of those men are in very distressing circumstances, and I should like to know if the Government is prepared to do anything in the matter for them.

I have received some correspondence with respect to the members of our Canadian navy who are now being demobilized at Halifax. Some are stranded and cannot get home, and are out of work and in need of help. Some of these men belong to the city of Toronto, and I should like to know what the Government intends to do for them. Their enlistment papers I understand called for eight years' service with transportation to and from their homes.

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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Minister of Marine and Fisheries) :

I am glad to be able to tell my hon. friend that I have asked that a certain amount be placed in the supplementary estimates to provide compassionate allowances for the families of the men Who lost their lives in the wreck of the Canadian government steamer Lambton. Of course, we will have to bring down supplementary estimates if those dependents are to be assisted.

Hon. GEORGE P. GRAHAM (Minister of Militia and Defence): As to my hon. friend's second question, I wish he would let me see the correspondence which he has received from the navy men who, he says, have been left stranded in Halifax.

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PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR.


DESLAURIERS On the Orders of the Day: Mr. DESLAURIERS. (Translation).- Mr. Speaker, before the Orders of the Day are called, I should like to raise a question of privilege. Last Friday, referring to the Civil Service Commission estimates, I quoted and commented upon a certain case in the Department of the Secretary of State, which I gave out as an example, without, however, naming the person



whom I had in mind and whom I still have in mind. This had the effect of causing some alarm amongst the staff of that department. I must, in all justice, state in this House that my remarks were not directed against the chief of the Naturalization Branch who, I acknowledge, is very competent to fill the post which he now holds; I must further add that the staff of that branch must in no way cast doubt upon the honour of some of their comrades, because I must admit and assert that I received my information from an entirely outside source, and not from any one connected with the Department of the Secretary of State. I had no intention nor have I at present-I am speaking for the future, as I intend to again bring up this subject-to attack persons whom I think are very lucky to be recommended by the Civil Service Commission. What I have proved by my argument is that the commission is incompetent and unjust in the classification of employees. You will find further proof of this by looking over the Official Gazette of Canada, of June 3, 1922; you will note that the commission recommends a maximum salary of $3,600 per year for an ordinary shipping agent, while a little further it recommends a maximum salary of $2,100 for an expert in irrigation. . . . Mr. SPEAKER. (Translation): I would request the hon. member to kindly confine himself to the question of privilege. Dn a question of privilege a member may not enlarge upon a speech already made. The hon. member has stated that what he said the other day in no way reflects upon the character of two or three employees of the Department of the Secretary of State. That does not come under questions of privilege, but rather under personal explanation. This having been clearly stated I would ask the hon. member to desist and not further transgress the Rules of the House.


CANADIAN PATRIOTIC FUND


On motion of Hon. W. S. Fielding (Minister of Finance) the House went into committee to consider the following proposed resolution, Mr. Gordon in the Chair: That it is expedient to provide that whenever the Governor in Council is satisfied that the resources of the Canadian Patriotic Fund are inadequate to the continued performing of the relief work that has been carried on by that organization anid that the result of the cessation of any part of such work would throw upon the public authorities addi- tional burdens for the relief of distress, the Governor in Council may by Order in Council authorize the payment from the Consolidated Revenue Fund to the Canadian Patriotic Fund of such sums as may be p-equired from time to time to enable the said Canadian Patriotic Fund to continue its work, such sums not to exceed $900,000.


LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

Soon after the outbreak of the Great War, the Canadian Patriotic Fund was organized for the noble purpose of providing for the dependents of the soldiers who went overseas. It was a great organization for a great purpose, and during all the years of the war did splendid work, as most hon. members are aware. After the close of the war, the operations of the society were naturally restricted. The society, owing to the generosity of the Canadian public, received very large contributions, and it has, to-day, about four and a half million dollars still in the treasury. The society divides its obligations into two classes. There are what you call continuous cases, concerning which they have come under obligations covering a number of years in future. Families have been taken care of by the fund, and they will have to be cared for, for a number of years to come. Besides that, the society has been dealing with a number of emergency cases. I may, for convenience, describe the two classes as permanent charges and temporary charges. They have recently had an actuarial survey made of their obligations and their resources, and they have found that, if they are to fulfil their obligations to what I have called the continuous cases,, those which are continuing for a number of years, they cannot continue the work I have described as of an emergent or temporary character. It will be obvious at once that if the large amount of work of that kind hitherto carried on by the Patriotic Fund ceases, in view of the possibilities-and I am afraid the probabilities

we will still have some hardship in the coming winter, if the fund ceases to discharge that duty, they will naturally throw upon the public authorities, Dominion, provincial and municipal, a very large responsibility. After much consideration, we have reached the conclusion to propose to the House that the Canadian Patriotic Fund shall be permitted to continue its work. It is not the fund that is asking for this money. They have merely intimated to us that without some such arrangement, they will have to cease that part of their work. We think, in view of the excellence of that organization, and

Root Vegetables

of the large number of men and women all over Canada who have assisted in building up that splendid system of relief, that it would be unwise, in reference to that local Work, that they should be disbanded or rendered useless. Some will say, "If you want to continue the work of that character, why not put it in the hands of the Government's own officials?"

I think most people familiar with the work will think that it is no disparagement to the Government officials to say that the work that has been carried on by the ladies and gentlemen connected with that organization will, at least, be as well done by them as it would be done by Government officials, and therefore, we are making an exception in this case by suggesting to Parliament that we should be placed in a position, as the necessity arises, to make this grant, not exceeding the sum of $900,000, in order that the Patriotic Fund may continue, not only its larger and wider obligations, which they call the continuous cases, but that they may also continue the other class of work to Which I have referred. I have had my attention called to the fact that in Manitoba there is a separate organization, and that the Canadian Patriotic Fund has not been operating in that province. When we come to the committee stage of the bill founded on this resolution, I shall endeavour to make provision which will deal with the Manitoba case. Here is a great organization which has been doing noble work. We think it is a pity we should not avail ourselves of the machinery which has the confidence of the country and is composed of ladies and gentlemen who have no other interest in the world except to carry on the work of relief, and we think that on the whole, it is better to continue that organization in its work, than to throw the responsibility upon the public authorities, whether local, provincial or municipal. That is the whole purpose of the motion.

Resolution reported, read the second time and concurred in. Mr. Fielding thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 188, respecting the Patriotic Fund.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

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SALE AND INSPECTION OF ROOT VEGETABLES


House again in Committee on Bill No. 133, to regulate the sale and inspection of root vegetables, Mr. Gordon in the chair. On section 3-Potato grades.


CON

David Spence

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPENCE:

I wish to thank the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) and the hon. Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Motherwell) for their courtesy in permitting this measure to stand over till to-day. I felt that the committee had not sufficient knowledge of this question to be able to give it a square deal. And I was getting much valuable information in regard to this matter, which I wish to give to the committee.

I realize that this is one of the most important Bills introduced in the House this year, and it should receive serious consideration. It pertains to one of the biggest industries in Canada and I hope the bill will go through as recommended by the Department of Agriculture.

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LIB

Lewis Herbert Martell

Liberal

Mr. MARTELL:

I do not like to interrupt, but the Bill has not been distributed.

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CON

David Spence

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPENCE:

I think it has been distributed. I am sorry the hon. member has not the bill before him.

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LIB

George Newcombe Gordon (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

It has been distributed for weeks, and was before the committee a week ago.

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CON

David Spence

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPENCE:

I asked that this bill be held over because I was getting certain information I wanted to give to the committee. This bill had its origin in certain representations made to the department for many years by growers of potatoes and dealers in root vegetables asking for examination of cars of potatoes received which were not graded. The department very wisely started to get in touch with the different potato growers all over Canada and with the dealers in these commodities, and a conference was held at the Chateau Laurier two years ago last fall. The conference was attended by men of prominence from all over the Dominion connected with the potato industry. The official delegates appointed from the various provinces were as follows:

Prince Edward Island-Representing growers: W. N. McGregor, Central Lot 16. Representing dealers: Nelson Ratterbury, Charlottetown.

Nova Scotia-Representing growers: F. W. Foster, Kingston. H. M. Palmeter, Grande Pre. Representing dealers: A. E. McMahon, Kent-ville.

New Brunswick-Representing growers: a.

A. H. Margison, East Centreville. Representing dealers: O. R. Estey, Woodstock.

Quebec

Representing growers: Joseph E.

Parent, Rimouski; Roger Gagnon Rlviere-du-Loup; John McEvoy, Montreal. Representing dealers: William Rell, Montreal.

Ontario - Representing growers: Henry

Broughton, Sarnia; J. G. Fleming, Blenheim, J. M. McNaughton, Orangeville. Representing dealers: David Spence, Toronto.

Root Vegetables

Manitoba-Representing growers: R. P.

Andrews, Birds Hill. Representing dealers: J. G. Anderson, Winnipeg.

Saskatchewan-Representing glowers: E. W. Marvel, Indian Heaid. Representing dealers: *J. M. MleCrae, Moosejaw.

Alberta-Representing growers: R. Noel

Hammon, Edmonton. Representing dealers: S. Savage, Calgary.

British Columbia-Representing growers-C.

E. Barnes, Walhachin; J. T. Mutrie, Vernon; *R. M. Winslow, Vernon. Representing dealers: E. L. Fraser, Vancouver.

Representing Consumers: Mrs. F. S. Mearns, Toronto.

Representing Retail Trade: E. M. Trowern, Ottawa.

Unable to be present.

The Provincial Departments of Agriculture also sent representatives, who took part in the discussion and acted in an advisory capacity, as follows:

Prince Edward Island, Wilfred Boulter, Charlottetown.

Nova Scotia, Ur. M. Cumming, Truro.

New Brunswick, A. G. Turney, Fredericton.

Quebec, J. H. Lavoie, Quebec.

Ontario, A. H. MacLennan, Toronto.

Alberta, J. D. Smith, Edmonton

British Columbia, R. C. Abbot, Vancouver.

In addition to federal officers with headquarters at Ottawa, the following were present:

S. J. Peppin, Botanical laboratory, Charlottetown, P.E.I.

G. C. Cunningham, Botanical laboratory, Fredericton, N.B..

R. G. L. Clarke, Chief Fruit Inspector for British Columbia.

F. H. Steele, Chief Fruit Inspector for the prairie provinces.

R. E. Robinson, Chief Fruit Inspector for Quebec and E. Ontario.

G. H. Vroom, Chief Fruit Inspector for the maritime provinces.

P. J. Carey, Fruit Packing and Orchardist Specialist, Toronto.

I have read these names so that the committee may see the class of men who were present at that conference. They discussed this matter for one whole day, and in the evening two special committees were appointed to bring in a recommendation of a designated grade. The next day the committee brought in its recommendation, and after a few slight amendments had been made it was carried unanimously.

I hope that the Government will see that this bill goes through in the form recommended by the Department of Agriculture. In that way the public will get a square deal that they could not otherwise get. It is the public I am considering, not myself.

I may say that the bill as recommended by the department has the approval of every potato growers' association from the Atlantic to the Pacific. We had as advisers to the committee the vegetable specialist

of the Department of Agriculture, Ontario; the Potato Specialist from the maritime provinces, and the Provincial Markets Commissioner from British Columbia.

My hon. friend from Victoria and Carle-ton (Mr. Caldwell) made the statement in the Committee of Agriculture that a certain gentleman whom I know by repute had told him that it was impossible for him to make a living in. the potato business if the grade he recommends does not go through. I immediately got in touch with the headquarters of the potato industry in this Dominion, at Woodstock, and I have here three wires from men who thoroughly understand the potato business. The first is from Mr. O. K. Esty:

Heartily approve of grading act as outlined.

The next is from Nelles & Clark:

We strongly urge the adoption of the potato grades as outlined in the report of proceedings of potato and onion conference held Ottawa February 24 and 25, 1920. Working under great difficulties, both shippers and farmers, present conditions without grading law.

The next one is from the New Brunswick Potato Exchange, Limited:

As representatives of several of largest shippers here we find ail shippers favour the adoption of potato grades similar to those in effect in United States.

I have not much further to say. My objection to the first subsection of section S as read the other night is that it is pro-1 posed that certain words be struck out. It now reads this way:

Canada A quality, which shall include only sound, reasonably mature potatoes of similar varietal characteristics-

And so forth. Then it goes on:

In this grade the diameter of potatoes of the round varieties shall not be less than one and seven-eighths inches, and of potatoes of the long varieties one and three-fourths inches, and not over twenty per cent 'by weight of any lot shall be less than two and one-quarter inches in diameter.

That means that eighty per cent must be two and one-quarter inches in diameter or over, and only twenty per cent one and three-quarter inches in diameter. My hon. friend from Victoria and Carleton thought that was very hard on the grower of potatoes, and he moved that the last line be struck out. I have here in my hand a sample of the potatoes that the hon. member for Victoria and Carleton suggests should be called grade A. If his amendment is agreed to, a man could ship a carload of potatoes this size, and the inspector could say to the dealer "That is A grade, and you must accept it as such." I would

Root Vegetables

move, if I am in order-I am not accustomed to moving amendments-that the amendment be struck out, and that the grade be as recommended by the department.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Does my hon.

friend want the bill to stand as originally drafted?

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CON

David Spence

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPENCE:

Yes. The Deputy Minister of Agriculture, to my knowledge, has been studying this question for the last five or six years, and surely after his recommendation and the recommendation of the conference of representative men whose names I have given, it is ridiculous to turn the whole committee against their recommendations.

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LIB

George Newcombe Gordon (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

I would ask the

hon. member which words he desires to strike out in clause 3.

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CON

David Spence

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPENCE:

I would let the whole

thing remain as it is, and not strike out the last words of the subsection as was proposed.

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June 22, 1922