June 9, 1922

LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I think in the case of hogs it ran to about 17 per cent. I am not sure what the figure would be for. cattle; I think it is about the same.

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CON

Simon Fraser Tolmie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TOLMIE:

For the year ending

March 31, 1922, some 700,000 head of cattle passed through our inspected abattoirs; the affected animals amounted to about 5.6 per cent. In the same period, in the case of about 1,750,000 hogs, the average was about 22 per cent.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

At that rate it is really increasing.

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CON

Simon Fraser Tolmie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TOLMIE:

In the case of hogs the proportion increased from 9 per cent in 1910 to 22 per cent at the present time, and in the case of cattle from about 2.3 per cent to about 5.6 per cent.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I know that the last figures I had, about two years ago, indicated a percentage of about 17. With regard to the caution of the hon. member for Victoria (Mr. Tolmie), I may say that we are not going to go into the work too extensively, for the very good reason that we have not sufficient money to be extravagant. If we could adopt the suggestion

of the hon. member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Leader) possibly things would loosen up. But the militia estimates were pretty well cut down, if I remember rightly; possibly we could take a chunk out of the Welland canal. However, as I am not familiar with the utility of that waterway, possibly I should not make that suggestion. I will read a sentence or two from my remarks on the budget:

For the last year or two we have been spending annually half a million dollars in connection with the extermination of tuberculosis amongst our cattle. We are doing this for two .purposes. X think, in the hearts of many of us, It Is primarily for taking care of the youth of Canada.

So we are not entirely oblivious to the necessity of extending this work. The question is, first, what is the proper direction in which to extend it; second, how much are the people of Canada prepared to spend on it; third, how much do the farmers want by way of indemnity? The more you give per animal the less herds you will clean up for a given amount of money. That is the whole thing in a nutshell.

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CON

Thomas Henry Thompson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMPSON:

When this question was discussed on a previous occasion I inquired whether the regulations with regard to inspection of milk applied to villages, and I was told that it applied only to milk sent to towns and cities. In view of the argument made by the hon. member for Portage la Prairie, I think that this matter should be considered. In many cases the milk is supplied to villages under exactly the same conditions as it is furnished to towns and cities. I would recommend that the regulations be amended so that they will apply to villages as well.

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PRO

John Millar

Progressive

Mr. MILLAR:

Is there any information available to show the extent, if any, to which bovine tuberculosis may be communicated to human beings through the medium of butter and cheese? There are many supplying butter in towns and villages who do not supply milk.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

It is thought to be communicable more largely by the medium of milk to children under five years of age than to adults. The danger has been modified by the pasteurization of cream, resulting in the production of butter which will keep better and stand exposure better than butter made from unpasteurized cream. But butter made from pasteurized cream is not, I think, absolutely free from power to communicate the disease.

Animal Contagious Diseases

I read an article recently to the effect that they are beginning to pasteurize milk for cheesemaking also. It is some forty years since I had anything to do with cheesemaking, but perhaps the hon. member for Qu'Appelle would know about that. At all events, there is very serious danger of communicating the disease not only through the cheese but through the whey, unless you pasteurize, and that is why the Dairy Standards Act of Ontario was passed to provide, not only for the buying of milk on grade, but for the pasteurization of whey in cheese factories. So from the fact that they are pasteurizing the whey, I would judge that they are not pasteurizing the milk, although I think they are talking about doing it.

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PRO

William James Lovie

Progressive

Mr. LOVIE:

Has the department taken any steps towards co-operating with the deputation that came down here from Carman, Manitoba, representing the three municipalities of Dufferin, Roland and Thompson, represented by Doctor J. H. Munn and Mr. Evans, Deputy Minister of Agriculture in the province of Manitoba? The farmers in those three municipalities want to clean up their herds. Has anything been done in the matter?

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

A deputation did come down here about two or three weeks ago. I do not know whether I ought to divulge the extent of our negotiations, but I may say that it was partly as a result of that delegation coming down here that we have thought it wise to take up this additional work. The matter had been under consideration, but here was a deputation representing three municipalities, which came voluntarily to us and took the ground that the people there were practically a unit in desiring to have those municipalities cleaned up.

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PRO

William James Lovie

Progressive

Mr. LOVIE:

There are a lot of grade herds there as well as pure-ibred, which they want cleaned up. I understand that Doctor Munn considered the compensation too high.

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CON

Simon Fraser Tolmie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TOLMIE:

With regard to butter communicating tuberculosis, I have no figures here in connection with children, but I do know of the experiments that have been carried on in the United States showing that tuberculosis is communicated to swine. There is another very striking thing. In those dairy districts where by-products are fed to swine, we find at the abattoirs that ten per cent more hogs are infected with tuberculosis than in the case of hogs

coming from grain districts where no dairy products are fed. At the same time the percentage of infected cattle coming from these districts is just about the same, showing that it is the consumption of dairy byproducts that communicates the disease.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I promised that we would leave the bill in committee. I notice there has been no change suggested in compensation by anybody.

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PRO
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Well, we will

sleep over it. I am prepared to consider raising the compensation for pure bred cattle to a certain extent. It may be the figure is too small, but I am a little afraid of the consequences of raising it. However, there is no harm in trying it. We will sleep over it.

Progress reported.

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SALE AND INSPECTION OF ROOT VEGETABLES


On motion of Hon. W. R. Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture) the House went into committee to consider the following proposed resolution, Mr. Gordon in the Chair: Resolved, That it is expedient to bring in a measure to regulate the Sale and Inspection of Root Vegetables and to provide:- 1. For' the marking and grading of potatoes when offered for sale in bags or barrels or in bulk, and to define the grades and quality to be prescribed; tout the provisions of the proposed legislation shall not apply to new potatoes when shipped between 1st June and 15th September inclusive, nor to potatoes imported into Canada, nor to seed potatoes, nor when compliance would prevent the sale or exportation of potatoes to any foreign market. 2. That no person shall sell or offer for sale any potatoes in any package in which the faced or shown surface gives a false representation of the contents of such package, that :s when more than ten per centum of such potatoes are substantially smaller in size than, or inferior in grade to the faced or shown surface; and no person shall sell or offer for sale any potatoes so diseased or otherwise depreciated as to render them unfit for consumption. 3. That whenever any potatoes in any package are found so packed that the face or shown surface gives a false representation of the contents of the package, any inspector may confiscate such package which may be destroyed or otherwise disposed of as the minister, may direct; and whenever any potatoes in any package are found to be falsely marked, the said inspector may mark the same "below grade" or efface such false marks and place the proper grade marks thereon; and the inspector shall give notice to the packer within twenty-four hours, of his action in regard thereto. 4. That all potato barrels manufactured In Canada for sale in Canada, and all barrelB Root Vegetables



containing potatoes for sale in Canada, shall contain as nearly as praticable seven thousand and fifty-six cubic inches; and the Governor in Council may make regulations as to quality, form and dimensions of containers, and penalties for violation of the regulations. 5. That no person shall sell, or offer, expose or have in his possession for sale, potatoes packed in a barrel, for sale by the barrel, unless such barrel is well and properly filled. 6. That inspectors may enter upon any premises to make examination of any potatoes suspected of being marked or packed in violation of these provisions, and may detain any shipment of potatoes for examination, in respect of which he has reasonable grounds, for believing there is a violation of these provisions, upon giving notice thereof to the owner. 7. That provision be made for the marking, grading and inspection of onions, offered for sale by the bag, crate, or package ; excepting what are commonly termed "green onions," and not applying to onions imported into Canada, nor when compliance would prevent the sale or exportation of onions to any foreign market. 8. That similar provisions as to false representation, and as to diseased or otherwise depreciated onions, and as to seizure, confiscation and examination of onions, be enacted as proposed in the case of potatoes. 9. That all potatoes, onions, artichokes, beets, carrots, parsnips and turnips offered for sale, shall be sold by the unit one standard pound avoirdupois' Provided that when any of the foregoing vegetables are offered for sale with the top leaves attached, commonly termed by the trade "green vegetables," this provision shall not apply. , , , 10. That penalties be enacted for violation of the proposed legislation and for the procedure to be adopted in prosecutions therefor.


LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

This whole matter will come up on the committee stage of the bill, and if there is no objection, it would facilitate the business of the House if we took the present stage to-night. Every opportunity will be afforded for discussion at the committee stage.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

We brought down a bill for this purpose last year, as a result of the large number of petitions received from various parts of the Dominion that provision be made for the grading of potatoes, onions, and such like. It is in accordance with the general tendency of the times to grade all produce. I know there are some who think we are going too far in the matter of grading, but I do not see how you can get a basis for dealing intelligently unless you have an established grade. Up to the present time we have been selling potatoes without a grade. Suppose a man in Edmonton sends a carload of potatoes to Montreal, and the price drops and the dealer refuses to take them; what is your basis of settlement? Without a grade there is no basis.

I might just add to what the Minister of Finance has said that the law provides that any bill involving either money or the regulation of trade must be preceded by a resolution, and as this matter deals with the regulation of root vegetables we have had to proceed by way of resolution. The whole subject will be open for discussion when we reach the committee stage, and if there is no objection it will facilitate business if we could get the resolution through to-night.

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June 9, 1922