May 4, 1922

PRO

Thomas Alexander Crerar

Progressive

Mr. CRERAR:

I am very sorry that I failed to make my meaning clear to my horn, friend. I found no objection to the principle of the Government consulting Parliament on matters of this kind; hut the ground upon which I rest my objection at this moment is that this agreement should not be permitted to lapse further, that it should come hack into effect; and taking that position I could not very well consistently support a motion to refer it to a committee that would give consideration to the fact as to whether or not it should be restored.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Then all 1

have to say to my hon. friend is this-that we have yet to see whether that agreement will come before Parliament for further consideration by way of amending legis-tion. That question is not involved in the resolution before the House at the present time.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Perhaps my hon.

friend would not object to my making a similar statement. My objection to the resolution to which the hon member refers was not based on any desire, or expression of desire that Parliament should be refused any information but-similar to that of the hon. member for Marquette -only because we desired that the management of the road should not become a subject of political discussion such as to interfere with its proper business operation, but that in due time Parliament should have all information.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I do not recall that statement by my right hon. friend.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I did not Mr. MEIGHEN: I will show it to my catch the force of my hon. friend's remark. }lon- frjend in Hansard.

Crowsnest Agreement

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

We can all read Hansard for ourselves. Perhaps both my hon. friends will permit me to refer to one other resolution which was passed last year, in regard to which they took a like position.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

My right hon. friend says " hear, hear." I hope he will say " hear, hear," after I have read the resolution which he himself moved in this House on the 8th April; and, by the way, may I interpose that the wording is all-important as immediately bearing on the very matter w;e are discussing, namely, the propriety of having certain questions referred to a select committee of this House before the Government reaches a final decision. On April 8th, 1921, the present leader of the Opposition, then the Prime Minister, moved, seconded by my hon. friend from West York (Sir Henry Drayton):

That a Select (Standing Committee on National Railways and Shipping be appointed for the present session, and be instructed to inquire into the following questions:-

(1) What information as to operation of Canadian National railways and shipping as conducted by the Board of Directors and Management should, in the public interest, be brought down in Parliament on question, motion for production of Papers, or otherwise.

2. When, by what method, and under what conditions, if any, should such information be given, regard being had for the necessity of securing to Parliament and the public all facts requisite for the determination of policy (including finance), and to the Board of Directors the best possible conditions and efficiency of management.

Mark those words, that this committee, which my right hon. friend wished to have appointed, was to give Parliament information when certain investigations should be made having regard for what?

For the necessity of securing to Parliament and the public all facts requisite for the determination of policy.

That is exactly the reason why the Government is proposing to have this question referred to a special committee now.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

There is such a body now.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

It is because of the necessity of bringing to the attention of Parliament, in regard to this allimportant question, all the essential facts in order that the Government itself may have possession of these facts and that hon. members of the House may be in full possession of these facts before a final

[Mr. Meighen.I

decision on this question and all that it involves is given.

I have, I think, directed the attention of the House to the fact that that resolution of my right hon. friend was supported both by the present leader of the Opposition and by the hon. member for Marquette (Mr. Crerar).

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

How did my hon. friend

vote?

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I did not draft the resolution.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

How did he vote?

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I voted

against the resolution, not because of the phrasing of it, which was that of my right hon. friend, not because of this particular clause-

For the necessity of securing to Parliament and the public all facts requisite for the determination of policy.

*-which might have been omitted altogether if it had not been regarded as so important by my right hon. friend, but because the intent and purport of his resolution was to side-track altogether the obtaining of information by Parliament on matters concerning the Canadian National railways. If there is any doubt about the wisdom of the vote, I would ask my right hon. friend what report this committee has made.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The report is unanimous and is in the records of the House.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

What does it say?

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It speaks for itself.

If the hon. member so desires, I will get it and read it.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

It speaks for itself and also for my right hon. friend.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

And for my hon. friend, because members of his party were on it.

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

As I have

said before, one can always tell when my right hon. friend is hit by an argument- he jumps immediately to his feet every time. *

Topic:   CROWSNEST PASS AGREEMENT
Subtopic:   PROPOSED INQUIRY INTO EFFECT UPON RAILWAY RATES
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May 4, 1922