March 31, 1922

CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

That is the item referred to by the Prime Minister.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

James Murdock (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MURDOCK:

Temporary employees. Other items are: salaries joint industrial councils, $326.62; salary director of coal operations, $6,285; salary arrears under reclassification, $8,052.97, or a total for the last fiscal year of $228,139.34. That was as of March 31, one year ago to-day. Again, may I say to my hon. friend that last year the records indicate that the temporary employees in the Labour Department were paid from these sources: contingencies, 56; employment offices, 56; joint councils, 2. This indicates there were 114 temporary employees at one time or another, but there were only about 42 when I took charge of the department.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

Do I

understand the minister to say that during the past fiscal year at different times there were 114 temporary employees employed in that department?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

And do I understand the minister to say that the wages of these men were largely paid out of the vote referred to by the Prime Minister?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

James Murdock (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MURDOCK:

The figures were: employment offices, 56; contingencies, 56; joint councils, 2.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

And on

the 1st January when the minister took

charge there were forty-two temporary employees?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):

And the minister proposes to do away permanently with thirty out of these forty-two?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

James Murdock (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MURDOCK:

Yes, in so far as that may be possible.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou) :

And

twelve out of the forty-two are to be made permanent? Is that the situation?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

James Murdock (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MURDOCK:

In order that there will be no misunderstanding, let me say there is no provision being made in these civil government estimates for thirty of the employees I found in the Labour Department when I took office.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

Then their salaries are not needed in the vote?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

James Murdock (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MURDOCK:

Unless it may be

necessary to utilize their services in some one of the branches,' and either pay them out of contingencies or some other of the various funds of the department as fixed by statute.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

That does not affect

the fact upon which my motion rests. They are provided for in your main estimates of this year. I would say to my hon. friend from Pictou (Mr. Macdonald) that the figure of 114 temporary employees given by the minister has no relation whatever, to the extent of forty-two, to the estimates under consideration now. The balance of them, and seventy odd employees, are provided for in item 272 to be found at page 52 of the Estimates. So we must not allow the idea to permeate the minds of hon. gentlemen that the number of temporary employees is being reduced from 114 to 12-that would not be correct at all.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
UFO

Robert Henry Halbert

United Farmers of Ontario

Mr. HALBERT:

I hesitate to ask a question for fear of eliciting another speech from the Minister of Labour. We have spent a great deal of time with these estimates and we have not made much progress. I would like to get information on a couple of points from the minister if he can answer me briefly. I understand that under the Civil Service Act the minister has no power to discharge any official but he can abolish an office. Am I correct in that understanding?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

James Murdock (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MURDOCK:

My understanding is that I could discharge an employee for cause, but I could not do away with the office.

Supply-Labour

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

Could you not do it

under Order in Council?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
LIB

James Murdock (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MURDOCK:

My hon. friend corrects me to the extent of saying that I could do so under an Order in Council, but no hon. member would expect me to abolish an office that was necessary and one in which there was work to be done.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink
UFO

Robert Henry Halbert

United Farmers of Ontario

Mr. HALBERT:

I should think that perhaps you might dispense with unnecessary employees by degrees. For example if there were three clerks in an office it might be possible for you to get along with two. My next question is: To What extent have these estimates been increased by statutory increases to the clerks in the department?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE BILL
Permalink

March 31, 1922