June 3, 1921

L LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Laurier Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Both hon. gentlemen will have an opportunity to speak. The majority of members said "carried," and the Chairman alone is to blame if he did not see the hon. member.

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UNION

Thomas Henry Thompson

Unionist

Mr. THOMPSON:

The member for

Frontenac spoke of the haphazard way in which cheese is inspected. If that is the case in Frontenac it is not so in other sections of the country like Hastings, Prince Edward, and Peterborough, for the cheese board have regulations governing this matter. In the case of a dispute between buyer and seller, the inspector who is employed by the Provincial Government, is the sole arbitrator and settles the question. The hon. member speaks of hundreds of thousands of dollars which dealers have lost. That must apply to Frontenac, for at their annual meetings at the different factories the producers have passed resolutions commenting favourably on the fair dealing between buyers and sellers. They had the privilege of sending cheese to Montreal to be inspected last year, and there were not five per cent of the farmers that did not take advantage of this arrangement. I am not opposed to the Bill provided the farmers are consulted. In an interview in the minister's office the other day I asked that the members of the cheese board, who are the representative farmers, be consulted. The member for Frontenac spoke of the Dairymen's Association. At this meeting I speak of, there were 13 farmers present and 7 of them voted for this measure. That is not representative of the dairymen by any means, and if the Minister will come to the city of Belleville, the town of Picton, or the city of Peterborough he will meet hundreds of representative farmers who are producing milk and are interested in this business. They will be willing to discuss the matter fairly with him. I only ask that before these regulations are adopted the men who produce the milk shall be consulted.

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

This Bill is too important to be rushed through the House in the last days of the session without consideration. As the member for Queen's (Mr. Sinclair) has said, the dairy industry is facing a difficult situation. When you

realize that butter fat which a year ago was selling at 75 cents a pound, to-day sells at 35 cents, you can see how conditions are changing. The dairy industry of this country depends upon the men who produce the milk. I have been listening carefully to this discussion, and, so far as I can see, this legislation is not being introduced at the request of the producers. As the member for East Hastings has just pointed out, the Dairymen's Association is not representative of the dairymen. I have attended meetings of Dairymen's Associations where scarcely a dairyman was heard; but you could find any number of Government officials and dealers in dairy products represented on the boards, and they always endeavour to manipulate the appointment of officers in the associations so that they may have control of whatever regulations they try to carry on the board. The Minister would be well advised, after having had this discussion, to let this matter remain in abeyance for another year, and let the producers, upon whom the dairy industry depends, be heard, before taking steps that will jeopardize the industry. It is a very easy matter. The voice of the producer may not be heard. He may be in the business to-day very strongly, but in a very short time he may change his whole plan and system and go out of the business and you will never hear from him. That is very unfortunate for the industry and very unfortunate for the country. That is the very thing that is happening in many localities to-day. We ought to do everything we possibly can to stabilize industry in this country, and I think we should be much more careful than we are not to introduce legislation that may cause an injury to the stability of any industry in the country without giving it very careful consideration. I sometimes wonder, particularly during these trying times through which we are passing, whether we have got both feet down on the ground again and realize the difficulties with which we are confronted. We passed, without much consideration, legislation, some of which, I am satisfied, does not help the object that the promotors had in view. I think that a great purpose will be served by the introduction of this Bill, and having it brought forcibly to the attention of the dairymen of this country, that there is a demand. That demand may be from the Provincial Departments of Agriculture, and I believe that is where the demand has come from. I again say that the Departments of Agri-

culture do not always represent the dairymen of this country-not by any means. As far as the constituency that I represent is concerned, the manufacture of butter and cheese had for many years practically ceased. Owing to conditions that prevailed during the war the price of butter, condensed milk and other dairy products, went up to such a degree that the cheese industry suffered very materially, and the producers went out of business. But I find that during the present year many cheese factories are reopening again, and the prospects are bright for the cheese industry, unless something is done that may hamper it. If the producer was asking for this legislation, I would be inclined to give it much more consideration than I give it at present, because of the sources from which I believe the requests have come.

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Section agreed to. On Section 3-regulations:


L LIB

John Ewen Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR (Queen's) :

I think we

should ask the minister to specify that such notice should be given at a certain time before the Act comes into force, so that those interested would have an opportunity to prepare to conform to the regulations.

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UNION

Simon Fraser Tolmie (Minister of Agriculture)

Unionist

Mr. TOLMIE:

I think I can promise

that with perfect safety. Section 7 says:-

This Act shall come into operation on a day to be fixed by Proclamation of the Governor in Council.

And I can assure my hon. friend that ample opportunity will be afforded to these people.

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L LIB

John Ewen Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR (Queen's):

Would it

not be wise to state the time in the Bill?

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L LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Laurier Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

Might I call the attention of my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture to the various officers, graders and so on, to be created under this Act. Are they salaried officer's of the depart-1 ment? Is there any provision made for the salaries of these officers, and what will be the financial commitments of the department for the enforcement of this Act? Then, again, I observe that the warehouse or grading store means "any warehouse designated by the Governor in Council as a place in which the gr'ading of dairy produce may be carried on." Does it mean that the warehouse will be the property of the department, or that it will not be the property of the people engaged in the industry?

[Mr. Sutherland.) 1 ! : J i'llW

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UNION

Simon Fraser Tolmie (Minister of Agriculture)

Unionist

Mr. TOLMIE:

As far as the warehouse is concerned, that will be fixed according to the best arrangement that we can possibly make. It may be an estab-1 lishment used for the storing of dairy products. For instance, take the building at Montreal now under construction, a very large up-to-date cold storage establishment-*

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L LIB
UNION

Simon Fraser Tolmie (Minister of Agriculture)

Unionist

Mr. TOLMIE:

It is controlled by the

Harbour Commissioners. That will prob-1 ably be the point where the dairy grading will be carried on. With regard to the extra graders, I do not think we would require more than one or two to begin with.

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L LIB
UNION

Simon Fraser Tolmie (Minister of Agriculture)

Unionist

Mr. TOLMIE:

I think roughly about

$2,400 for a grader-around that neighbourhood.

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Section agreed to. Sections 5, 6 and 7 agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time, and passed. At One o'clock the House took recess. After Recess The House resumed at 2.30 o'clock. PRIVILEGE-Mr. WILSON (WENT-


WORTH).

UNION

Gordon Crooks Wilson

Unionist

Mr. G. C. WILSON (Wentworth) :

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of privilege. My attention has been called to an interview given by the Minister of Public Works of Ontario, in which he characterized my recent remarks in this House as deliberate lies, etc., and he further stated that he intended to challenge me to meet him on a public platform. I rise to say that I stand by every statement that I have made, and I have sent to Mr. Biggs the following telegram:

Ottawa, Ontario, June 3, 1921. Hon. F. C. Biggs,

Parliament Buildings,

Toronto, Ontario.

Anticipating your threatened challenge to meet me on a public platform as stated in today's Ottawa Journal, would suggest an evening meeting in the Dundas Park at a date to be agreed upon tout within the next thirty days. That an admission fee of twenty-five cents be charged and that the proceeds be given the Citizens Committee of Dundas for Park Improvements. I will personally pay for all expenses incurred re this meeting.

G. C. Wilson.

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PRO

Michael Clark

Progressive

Mr. CLARK (Red Deer):

Could not

that be staged on the same day as the Dempsey-Carpentier bout?

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Secretary of State of Canada; Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I desire to

return to the order of motions for the purpose of tabling a report of the Civil Service Commission.

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UNION

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Unionist

Mr. SPEAKER:

I am sure at this stage the House will consent to the hon. Minister of Finance (Sir Henry Drayton) presenting this report without the formality of going back to the order of motions.

Report tabled.

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CUSTOMS AND EXCISE

June 3, 1921