Mr. LEGER:

When this item was last before the committee, I had asked some questions of the minister, and the item stood for his reply. One of my questions was with reference to Mr. John Sheridan, Indian Superintendent for the North Shore district of the province of New Brunswick. This gentleman was a candidate in the provincial election last year, and it looks to me as if he at that time held the position of Indian Superintendent.

Mr. TOLMIE:

Since the item was up before, the hon. member has placed some questions on the Order Paper, which were replied to on April 27. I will give the questions and the answers:

Mr. Leger:

1. Did John Sheridan, who was a candidate in the last provincial election held in the province of New Brunswick on the ninth day of October, 1920, tender his resignation as Indian Superintendent for the North Shore district of said province before the date of said election?

2. If so, what was the date of his resignation?

3. Was his resignation accepted by the Government ?

Hon. Mr. Tolmie:

1. Yes.

2. September 27, 1920.

3. No action was taken by the department.

I understand that this man was on part time, and that he tendered his resignation, but at pointed out, no action was taken and he is still in the employ of the department.

Mr. LEGER:

I have asked this question on many occasions, and I hope that the minister's information is correct. Prior to Mr. Sheridan's appointment as Indian Superintendent, he was a member of the provincial legislature, from which he had to resign as a result of certain investigations. Then this Government picked him up and gave him this position. Last year he was nominated as a candidate in the provincial election, and he was badly defeated. According to the answer which the minister has just read, at that very time he held the position of Indian Superintendent. A certain time after the election I learned that this gentleman was still in his position. I wrote to the Minister of the Interior (Sir James Lougheed) the following letter:

Richibucto, N.B., October 25, 1920. The Honourable Minister of Interior,

Ottawa. .

Dear Sir,-Would you be good enough to let me know who was appointed to fill the position of Indian Commissioner for the North Shore District, N.B., which position was made vacant by the resignation of Mr. John Sheridan, who was a candidate for the county of Kent in the provincial election which was held on the 9th October instant, or who is acting as such commissioner since the resignation of Mr. Sheridan?

An early reply would oblige me very much.

Sincerely yours,

A. T. Leger.

I received the following reply:

Ottawa, Ont., October 30, 1920.

Dear Sir,-Answering your letter of the 25th instant, I beg to say that no vacancy has been created in the Northeastern Superintendcncy, Department of Indian Affairs. Mr. John Sheridan is still discharging the duties of Superintendent.

Yours sincerely,

James A. Lougheed.

This answer was not satisfactory, and when I came to the House I put a motion

on the Order Paper, and on Friday, April 8, 1921, a return was tabled. The order had been dated March 14, and called for copies of all correspondence, telegrams, and other documents relative to the resignation of Mr. John Sheridan, Indian Superintendent for the North Shore district in the province of New Brunswick, and also for copies of all correspondence, etc., relative to his appointment to the said position. I did not find the return any more satisfactory than the answer I had received from the minister in the first instance, and in reply to (a question I placed on the Order Paper, I received the information from the Minister of Agriculture that the resignation had been submitted on September 27, 1920, and that no action had been taken by the department. The information which I now get was denied the people of the country when it was first asked for, and I do not think the Government can justify permitting a public servant, who meddles in politics, to retain a position as that of Indian Superintendent. This is altogether indefensible, and I thought it was my duty to hring this matter before the House in order that this thing might not be repeated under similar circumstances.

Mr. MICHAUD:

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Tolmie) is too young a man to be guilty of the offence alleged by the member for Kent (Mr. Leger), and if the present Minister of the Interior were in the House at this moment, I should have no hesitation in declaring that he is the guilty one. A government official hands in his resignation to the department and it is accepted: then he goes and puts in his nomination papers, stands for election and is defeated, and, after his defeat, he receives word from the department that his nomination papers were faulty and that his resignation has not been accepted after all. Of course, after all his trouble and his hard fight for the good of his own party, he is allowed to retain his position. That is the present situation, and I say that it is highly improper for the department to treat the public in that fashion. The Minister of the Interior is to be censured for what has occurred in this matter, and I am sure that if the Minister of Agriculture had been in his place he would have acted differently.

Mr. LEGER:

Did Mr. Sheridan draw pay during the time of the campaign?

Mr. TOLMIE:

Mr. Sheridan was a parttime man; he did not derive the whole

source of his income from the moneys he received from the Government, which amounted to $960 a year. He was docked one month's pay. He has been in the employ of the department for some years, and his resignation was not accepted.

Mr. LEGER:

I saw by the report of the Auditor General that he gets a regular salary, but of course I take the Minister's word that he is only a part-time servant. From last year's report of the Auditor General I extracted the following:

John Sheridan, Indian Commissioner, salary, $800; traveling expenses, $255.35; rent, $50; 12$ cords of wood, $80.75 ; postage, $21.40; printing, $4.75; small items, $5.54: Total $1,217.70.

I was under the impression that this man was receiving a regular salary; at any rate, he used to. As regards the items mentioned in this statement, he lives in his own house, and the twelve and a half cords of wood would be used in his own home. The postage, I suppose, is all right, but the other expenses are extras.

Mr. TOLMIE:

A good deal of that wood would be used in his office. This report would not cover the period of that election, which was held last fall. The report covering that period would not be out yet.

Mr. LEGER:

An hon. gentleman has

asked me whether Mr. Sheridan was a Conservative or a Liberal. He certainly ran for the Conservative party.

Mr. ROBB:

About the same time that Mr. Sheridan was a candidate in New Brunswick, the general manager of the National Transcontinental railways gave a ruling that any official of the railways going into politics must at once resign his position. The question brought up by my hon. friend from Kent introduces this idea I suppose the same regulations would apply to all departments of government as to the National railways. What is there to prevent any official from going into politics if he wishes, tendering his resignation, and the minister holding it up until after the election? If the man is successful, the resignation is accepted; otherwise, he goes back to his position. The minister might make a statement as to how far the ruling of Mr. Hanna conflicts with the policy of the Government.

Mr. CALDWELL:

I would like to call

attention to a circumstance that happened in my riding last year on what is called the Maliceete Indian reserve, Victoria County, New Brunswick.

Mr. MICHAUD:

The Tobique Reserve.

Mr. CALDWELL:

Yes. I had a letter

from the chief of the reserve in March, stating that certain parties were cutting green lumber on the Indian reserve. I went to the Indian Department here and inquired about it, and they advised me by letter that they had taken it up with the Indian agent at Perth, which was very close to the Indian reserve, and the agent reported there was nothing being cut but dead timber. I believe that is all that was allowed to toe cut on any reserve. I replied to the chief's letter giving the information I had received, and I got an answer from the Indians stating that a large quantity of green timber was being cut on the reserve, and that the timber was getting scarce. The chief said he hoped I would see about it. I went back to the department and on further investigation I found that there had been six hundred green logs and quite a large quantity of green pulpwood cut on this Indian reserve. I would like to urge upon the minister that the Indian agent, who gets a very good salary for looking after these matters, should be requested to see that the Indians' rights are protected on this reserve, and that outside parties are not allowed to go in and cut the green timber which should toe held for the Indians. This is the second time this reserve has been pillaged, if I might use the word in that way, and I would urge the Department of Indian Affairs to see that their Indian agent looks after the interests of the Indians. I believe they get a fairly good salary for doing this. The agent lives at Perth, not three or four miles from this point, and should be able to investigate a charge of this kind, before the timber is all cut, hauled away and disposed of. I would like to know what action was taken with regard to the cutting of the green timber on the Tobique reserve.

Mr. TOLMIE:

I shall be glad to bring

the matter to the attention of the department.

Mr. CALDWELL:

I brought it to the

attention of the deputy minister, and I never received any information as to whether the parties (were punished for cutting the timber, or what was done.

Mr, ROBB: There appears to be a

conflict of ideas between Mr. Hanna and the Government. What is the hon. gentleman's idea of the matter?

Mr. TOLMIE:

I do not know that Mr. Hanna's decision with regard to the employee's taking part in politics has any effect on the Department of Indian Affairs.

I should imagine, anyway, from what has been reported here, that it did not have much effect. I do not know whether the decision of one department would have any effect on another department. I do not know that there is very much to say about it.

Mr. LEGER:

Is it the intention to

allow such a thing to be done, and to allow the man to remain in office during the campaign? I would like to have the assurance from the Government that they will not allow such a thing as that, because when the man sent in his resignation, he knew perfectly well what he was doing.

Mr. McKENZIE:

The hon. gentleman

from Kent (Mr. Leger) intimated that Mr. Sheridan left the legislature for some reason that has not been explained. Perhaps the hon. gentleman could explain why this man left the legislature and joined the Indian tribe.

Mr. LEGER:

I do not intend going into details. Certainly, if I am asked to give further information with reference to the matter of his resignation, I will do that. During that time he was a member of the provincial legislature, there was a certain bridge in course of construction near his place, and it seems that through the commissioner or the foreman of the work, a certain cheque was issued from the Government, which was handed over to Mr. Sheridan, and the amount was used for his personal benefit. A charge was made, a Royal Commission was named by the Government, of which he was a supporter, and through this commission he was adjudged guilty of the charge, and had to resign his seat in the House. Then, as I said before the Government here picked him up and gave him the position of commissioner.