May 30, 1921

UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

I was going to suggest that, instead of reading the item as amended, which is rather lengthy, I might hand it to Hansard to be published.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

Before the minister does that, I notice that at the end of the motion which he has made, provision is

made for the payment of debts of the various companies. We are only liable for the debt of the Grand Trunk since we took it over. He should put something in to show that we are liable for those debts since the company has become the property of the Government. Some date should be fixed.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

We have to assume

responsibility for the debt's of the company as at the date decided upon by the arbitrators. However, when we are next in committee, I shall consider any suggestions hon. members have to make.

Item as proposed reads:

Loan not exceeding $89,687,633.39 repayable on demand with interest at the rate of six per cent per annum, payable half-yearly, to be used (where amounts available from net operating: earnings may ibe insufficient) to meet expenditures made or indebtedness incurred at any time by or on behalf of the Canadian National Railway Company, the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada or any company comprised in the Canadian National Railway system or the Grand Trunk Railway system, or any of them (excluding herefrom, however, expenditures or indebtedness incurred by or on behalf of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company except as specifically provided in item (f) hereof) on any of the following accounts: (a) operating deficits, (b) acquisition of property, materials and supplies, (c) interest on notes, securities or obligations, (d) the principle and interest of maturing or matured loans, secured or unsecured, (e) construction and betterments, (f) guarantees by the said Grand Trunk Railway Company of securities, of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, such loan to be secured by mortgage or mortgages upon the undertaking of the Canadian National Railway Company or the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada on such terms and conditions as the Governor in Council may approve. The loan or assistance herein authorized may be made in cash or by way of guarantee, or partly in cash and partly by guarantee, in the discretion of the Governor in Council. Any guarantee from time to time given under the authority herein may be of the principle and interest of the notes, obligations or securities of the Canadian National Railway Company or the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada, and may be signed by the Minister of Finance, on behalf of His Majesty, in such form and on such terms and conditions as the Governor in Council may approve, $89,687,633.39.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

I would suggest to the minister that he ask the leave of the committee to hand in to Hansard the statements which he has read appertaining to the Grand Trunk Pacific, and the information he has in regard to the Grand Trunk, so that we may be in a better position to study the matter.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

I think all the statements I read are on Hansard.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

I would like to ask the minister if he has obtained the consent of the Governor General to his amendment.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

Yes, I made that announcement.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Laurier Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Before this matter

goes any further I may say that the minister did point out to ithe committee that His Excellency the Governor General had been informed of the* proposed change and recommended it to the House. I have accepted tne amendment for the time being but subject to further decision by the Chair. I am not absolutely sure that an announcement by a minister in committee that the recommendation of His Excellency has been obtained is quite sufficient. The question which arises here is whether there is really a change in destination of the amount. That will be looked into before the amendment is formally put to tne committee for a vote, and the Chairman will announce the decision thereon at the next sitting.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

I want to give notice of another amendment. I beg to move, in connection with the wording of the item for $26,0)0,000, the following:

Insert alter the word "the." in the sixth line, the words "Canadian National Railway Company or the."

Insert after the word "the," in the eighth line, the words "Canadian National Railway System or in."

Insert after the word "System," in the ninth line, the words "or any of them."

Strike out the word "vote," in the twelfth line, and insert instead the word "item."

Insert after the word "the," in the nineteenth line, the words 'ICanadian National Railway Company or of the."

Insert after the word "the," in the twenty-seventh line, the words "Canadian National Railway Company or the."

I may state that His Excellency the Governor General has been informed of the proposed change and recommends it to the House. The same reasons that I have given for the change in the previous item apply to the changes in this item.

The item as proposed reads:

Loan not exceeding $26,000,000, repayable on demand with interest at the rate of six per cent per annum, payable half-yearly, to be used (where amounts available from net operating earmngs may be insufficient) to meet expenditures made or indebtedness incurred at any time by or on behalf of the Canadian National Railway Company or the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company or any company comprised in the Canadian National system or in the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway system, or any of them, (excluding herefrom, however, guarantees by the Grand Trunk Railway Company which are provided for in item (f) of the next preceding item), on any of

the following accounts: (a) - operating deficits, (b) acquisition of property, materials and supplies, (c) interest on notes, securities or obligations, (d) the principal and) Interest of maturing or matured loans, secured or unsecured, (e) construction and betterments; such loan to be secured by mortgage or mortgages upon the undertaking of the Canadian National Railway Company or of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company on such terms and conditions as the Governor in Council may approve. The loan or assistance herein authorized may be made in cash or by way of guarantee, or partly in cash and partly by guarantee, in thi discretion of the Governor in Council. Any guarantee from time to time given under the authority herein may be of the principal and interest of the notes, obligations or securities of the Canadian National Railway Comnany or the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, and may be signed by the Minister of .Finance, on behalf of His Majesty, in such foim and on such terms and conditions as tne Governor in Council may approve $26,000,000.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

You have not given your decision, Mr. Chairman, but I think in a case of this kind, whenever the minister wishes to change an item in the Estimates, he should bring in an entirely new resolution, approved by the Governor General, and not simply an amendment. The Governor General cannot give consent to an amendment, but he can approve of a resolution.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

Perhaps we can take the balance of the items in connection with this item No. 126. They are to be found on the next page.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

I would like the minister to produce the submission deed in connection with the arbitration so that we might have an opportunity of seeing it. I have not seen it myself and I would like to have it on Hansard.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

It is in the statute. It is the agreement that was attached to the Bill.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

Does not the minister think we might adjourn now; it is past one o'clock.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

We have not made any progress at all.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

We have made very extensive progress.- We have got through a lot of matters that will not bother us again. Nothing is gained by these late sittings which exhaust our vitality for the next day. We might as well go home and get a good sleep, then we shall be able to do some work to-morrow.

Miscellaneous works not provided for, $2,060.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

There are only four or five items. Perhape we could pass them and then close up.

REVISED EDrflON.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR (Guysborough) :

I think the committee should rise because there are a few questions in regard to railway matters that hon. members on this side will want to have something to say about. I do not think we should put these items through to-night.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Hon. Mr. REID:

We have not made any progress with any of these items. However, I have no objection to letting the railway Estimates stand so that we might go on with the labour Estimates.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

It is too late to start

now. We had better take them up tomorrow.

Labour-Salaries, $171,640 ; contingencies, $35,000.

Topic:   SUPPLY-BERRY AND CURRANT BOXES
Subtopic:   REVISED EDITION. COMMONS
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May 30, 1921