May 14, 1921

UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

March 9 last, yes. At least, I think the war was over before that; I would not be sure-

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PRO

Michael Clark

Progressive

Mr. CLARK (Red Deer):

But it is still affecting prices.

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

There is no doubt of that. But while it may be affecting prices it certainly is not affecting that ring over in Great Britain; they are still carrying on their operations in Great Britain and free trade exists in fact just as it did before the war. So that my hon. friend's argument in that regard does not amount to any more than his arguments usually do.

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PRO

Michael Clark

Progressive

Mr. CLARK (Red Deer) :

The hon.

gentleman will have to ask the Prime Minister about that; he says the opposite.

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

The Prime Minister is

always able to take care of himself; I wish the hon. member for Red Deer could do the same for himself. What always amuses me is the strange inconsistency of these gentlemen opposite, who are always wanting free trade to help themselves and always wanting protection to help themselves. Just in parenthesis, I should like to remind my hon. friends of the Agrarian party who come from Saskatchewan of a little incident which occurred about three years ago when fifteen of us met in the city of" Regina. All the members from Saskatchewan were there, the only one absent being the Minister of Immigration (Mr. Calder). At that meeting a certain request was made by the manager of the Saskatchewan Creameries, an institution subsidized to the extent of over fifty or

sixty per cent of its capitalization by having that amount guaranteed by the Provincial Government. The Provincial Legislature of Saskatchewan has year after year passed resolutions demanding a reduction in the tariff. I do not blame them for that at all, although I think they do go beyond their province. But at that meeting the manager of the Saskatchewan Creameries came to us and stated that he wanted us to place an absolute embargo upon the importation and manufacture of oleomargarine. We asked him why; was oleomargarine unhealthful? No, he said, that was not the reason at all; if the embargo was put on, he pointed out, it would give him protection and would enable him to pay a higher price to the farmers for the cream that he was buying from them. So here we have the extraordinary spectacle of the manager of a creamery company subsidized by the Provincial Government, in a province which year after year passes resolutions in favour of a reduction of the tariff, asking us to assist him in the placing of an embargo, an absolutely prohibitive embargo, upon this article of manufacture.

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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. REID (Mackenzie):

Would the hon. member give me that gentleman's name?

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

The manager of the

Saskatchewan Creameries. The hon. gentleman was there; he knows him as well as I do.

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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. REID (Mackenzie):

I deny that; I was not there.

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

There was not a man

from Saskatchewan absent except the one I have mentioned. They were all there, the whole fifteen of us, and the hon. gentleman was there with the rest. '

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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. REID (Mackenzie):

Does the hon. member not know the name of the gentle- 1 man he speaks of as manager of this creamery company?

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

I just forget the name,

but it was the manager of the co-operative creamery in Saskatchewan. There is only one manager, so there could be no mistaking him. We were all there, the whole bunch of us, so that there are plenty of witnesses.

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UNI L

Charles Edwin Long

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. LONG:

May I ask whether the principle embodied in that request was endorsed at the meeting?

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

No, certainly not. I

simply wanted to bring out the point of

the request that this manager was making; we did not endorse it.

Now, I am afraid I have far more material here than I can possibly deal with. I take this position, clearly, definitely and distinctly: that Western Canada has

reached the point in its development where a protective tariff can be of benefit to it. I am prepared to admit that some time ago we paid the penalty for the benefit derived from the tariff by the rest of Canada. We have now reached the point where a very substantial indus-

4 p.m. trial development is due in Western Canada, and I am not going to turn round and throw down the tariff just at the time when we need it most. There are many lines of industry which can be established in Western Canada, lots of them. Last night the member for Maple Creek (Mr. Maharg) told us about the scores of people who were leaving southwestern Saskatchewan, his own district. That is probably true. But ever since I came into this House I have been drawing attention to what can be done in that district in the way of establishing a great industry. Has the member for Maple Creek ever given the slightest assistance to any movement which would result in populating that district with industrial people? Not a bit of it. I have never heard him offer a resolution on the subject. He can talk about wheat and I have no objection to his talking about that as much as he likes, because wheat is a very good thing to raise and I hope we shall do everything we can to assist the wheat growers

but there are other things which require attention, which can be developed, and I want to see those things looked after. I wish to place this article on Hansard, because I believe in posting the people of this country just as much as I can. This article relates to the constituency from which the hon. member for Maple Creek (Mr. Maharg) comes more than any other, although it has reference also to two other constituencies. It is from the Regina Leader of April 30:

When one considers that in Saskatchewan alone brick and tile (buildings to the value of $8,375,744 were erected during 1920 and that only about $300,000 worth of brick and tile was manufactured locally, despite the fact that we have such large and valuable deposits of clays must convince anyone that this particular resource is in need of study and development.

It is not generally known that such articles as jam pots, milk jugs, bean jars, mixing bowls, and other lines of crockery are now being made of Saskatchewan clays and are finding a ready market in Eastern Canada.

I want those raw clays, not only mined in Saskatchewan, but manufactured in that province, and I want such duties imposed as will assist in having those raw clays manufactured there. The hon. member for Maple Creek, however, has never, so far as I can remember, raised a finger in support of any suggestion:

The raw clay is mined in this province and shipped out for manufacture If such products can be marketed successfully as far East as Montreal, then it is reasonable to expect that a local concern properly organized and with adequate capital might in a few years secure a fair proportion of at least the western market. This particular market alone is well worth capturing. In 1920 Western Canada used well over $28,000,000 worth of clay .products in addition to its share of $41,000,000 worth of crockery imported from the United States.

"With facts such as these" said Mr. Dunning, "we feel the department would fail in its duty were we not to devote some special effort towards the assistance of those clay plants already i-n existence as well as the development on a broader scale of such a valuable resource. Why should we be importing building materials at great expense when the very best of such materials are undeveloped at our very doors.

Those clays are all located in southern Saskatchewan, the very district that, the hon. gentleman deplored, the people are leaving. Why not give every assistance that we can to build up this industry in that district and thus keep those people there, instead of taking a course which is driving them out of our country? It may he interesting to my hon. friend to know that this was an interview given to the press by a gentleman who is his colleague now in the Saskatchewan Government, Hon. Charles Dunning, and I rather commend him for the last lines of it:

Why should we be importing building materials at great expense when the very best of such materials are undeveloped at our very doors ?

That is an excellent sentiment, and I am glad to see that the Liberal Government of Saskatchewan is getting that view. It will he of great benefit to Western Canada if the grain growers' organizations will get the same view, and I am glad to say that some of them are coming to that view. Just a short time ago, the farmers of Alberta met, and they passed this resolution instructing their executive to make inquiries :

The convention asked the association executive to investigate possibilities of manufacturing leather and cotton products in the province and so avoid the long railway pull east and west

In my candid opinion, in the two lines of that resolution, there is more development, more enterprise, more Canadianism

and more good business than is contained in all the speeches delivered by members of the Agrarian party since I came into the House. That is real business; that is doing something in our country. Why should we not do it? As regards those clay products, my suggestion to the Minister of Finance (Sir Henry Drayton), before be brought down his Budget, was a very definite one, and I do not care who knows it. I am sorry that he did not act upon it. I asked him so to arrange his tariff that we might have a larger capital invested in those industries in Western Canada, especially when we consider that, _ m Saskatchewan alone, brick and tile buildings to the value of over $8,000,000 were erected in 1920, and that only about $300,000 worth of brick and tile was manufactured locally, and that in 1920 Western Canada used well over $28,000,000 worth of clay products, with only a comparatively small quantity manufactured in Saskatchewan. We must get away from the idea that the only thing we can do in Western Canada is to raise wheat. I am glad to say that we can raise wheat: raising wheat is a splendid thing to do, and wheat growers should be given every possible encouragement. But at the same time we want established in Canada every industry that can be established and I am going to bend all my efforts in that direction.

In a recent debate the hon. member for Maple Creek read a few lines from a pamphlet which I had issued once upon a time with a very lurid heading, and as I had no right to reply, I should like to state my views now. I will not refer to that debate, because I might be out of order, so hon. members must not consider that I am quoting from that debate at all. The hon. member quoted something that apparently showed that I had some objection to manufacturers. Thie difference between my hon. friend and myself is this, that I see a difference in the manner in which various Canadian manufacturers are dealing with the western markets. There is a big difference in the views with which they look upon the policy of protection. The policy of protection, as I understand it, as enunciated by Sir John A. Macdonald, has for its principle the establishment of industry in Canada so that our people will be able to develop their natural resources and thereby give work to thousands of men. The idea of protection is that Canadian manufacturers will manufacture so as to supply the Canadian market. The idea is not that a manufacturer

of our governments in both the Federal and Provincial spheres has 'been deplorably low and their efficiency and foresight have often left much to be desired.

I want to say to my hon. friend, as I have said many times at many different gatherings-and I have addressed many young men's and young women's clubs-in politics, as in business, never to try to succeed by tramping on the neck of your enemy. Try to succeed by your merits, and by your own merits alone. I pass that suggestion on to my hon. friend. When he tries to succeed by denouncing and condemning everybody else in Canada, I do not think he is doing himself any credit at all. What is the position? What is a "failure?" How do we judge it? i would say, by the results. What have been the results of the two-party system in the Dominion of Canada. As long as I can remember, long before Confederation, we have had two parties in this country; we have never had anything else except party government in Canada-either a party government, or a union of the two. In provincial and federal politics that has been the rule. We can-therefore say that Canada as it is to-day ds a result of the efforts of these two parties. Our educational system in the various provinces of Canada to-day, whatever it may be, is due to the efforts of these two parties; our judicial system, our whole Canadian citizenship as it stands to-day,. is the result of the efforts of these two parties. And I challenge any of my hon. friends in the Agrarian party to rise in his place in this House or anywhere else and say that he would exchange his Canadian citizenship for citizenship in any other country in the world. They dare not do it. I challenge them to do it. To-day Canadian citizenship stands high simply because we have had the dual party system in this country, the system that has produced such men as Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Washington, and Abraham Lincoln. I say, Sir, that we have a splendid Canadian citizenship because we have had two parties, and it ill becomes the hon. gentleman to say that both parties have been a failure. The condition of Canada to-day speaks for itself, and is ample evidence of the beneficent effects of the two-party system. Now, Sir, I am sorry to have delayed the House so long. Much of what I had intended to say I have omitted owing to pressure of time, but I thank hon. members for bearing with me in the remarks I have made.

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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. J. F. REID (Mackenzie) :

The hon. member who represents the constituency of Regina (Mr. Cowan), has made some very bold statements, but I must remind him of the fact that a mere assertion does not prove his case. I am not aware that the hon. gentleman has ever used any binding cord; I do not think so.

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

Of course. I was born and brought up on a farm.

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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. REID:

I will take the hon. gentleman's word for that, but quite evidently he knew enough to get away from the farm where the drudgery was to be found. He made a statement in regard to the tariff which I will deal with later; I will not refer to it just now. He gave to Mr. Musselman, the secretary of the Saskatchewan Grain Growers' Association, a very high recommendation; in fact, he said that that gentleman was the brains of that organization.

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

Hear, hear.

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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. REID:

I am glad to know that there is one man in the city of Regina whom the hon. gentleman is prepared to put nearly on a parity with himself. In speaking about binding cord, the hon. member tried to prove that this article was dearer under free trade conditions than under protection. I know a little about the price of binding cord, having bought it for many years, both under protection and under free trade. During the war-I am speaking from memory, but I am pretty sure that I am nearly within the mark-the highest price paid, at the peak of conditions in war times, was 25 cents per pound, and the highest price in normal times-under protection-was 22 cents per pound. Now, let us take a low figure in normal times under free trade conditions. Has my hon. friend any idea what the price of binding cord was in normal times, before the war, under free trade conditions?

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UNION

Walter Davy Cowan

Unionist

Mr. COWAN:

Will the hon. member please repeat the question, I was not listening.

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UNI L

John Flaws Reid

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. REID:

I know my hon. friend cannot answer the question, anyway. He also made the statement that at a certain meeting in Regina the manager of the Saskatchewan Co-operative Creameries was present and asked us to back up protective measures so as to help out the creameries in Saskatchewan. My hon. friend could not give the name of that gentleman, but I should like very much to get it.

The hon. member, since he came to Ottawa, I observe has undergone a change of heart in regard to the Canadian manufacturers. I know very well, and I am sure he will not deny this, that before coming to Ottawa and falling under the subtle influence of the party to which he belongs, what he had to say was very different from his opinions now. I shall read from a pamphlet issued by my hon. friend, a copy of which he was kind enough to send me. I will not record on Hansard the title of the pamphlet; I will respect my hon. friend to that extent. He said:

Go over to the North side of Regina and In half an hour you will see what a wrong conception the Canadian manufacturer has of the Canadian tariff. Acre after acre with foreign made goods; here and there a Canadian made machine-that exception amply testifying to the small soul and narrow vision of the manufacturer who made it.

Can we give employment to our returned men when that condition prevails? Can we be considered industrially alive when that is the established order? We Canadians have time after time declared our faith in a protective tariff, and I am a protectionist yet, but I would ibe darned well ashamed of myself were I a manufacturer enjoying 35 per cent tariff and still see foreigners running off with most of my preserve. There is something wrong with the Canadian manufacturer ; he wants a jolt; a head-on collision, as a matter of fact something that will *knock him clean out of his state room into the day coach where he can get some idea of what surrounds him. Grit or Tory or Unionist has no objection to being decent to him as long as he [DOT] is alive; but we are tired carrying a corpse. These dead men who imagine they are going to feed returned men on tariff are a menace to our country to-day.

If they will but shut up and get busy and make goods-

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May 14, 1921