March 17, 1921

UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

Pardon me; I did not

intend to speak on the item. I thought it was carried.

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Some hon. MEMBERS:

Carried.

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Before the item

is carried, I think that my request for some explanation as to what is going to he done with this $390,000 of an increase is but a reasonable one. But the minister apparently does not regard it as worthy his attention. He simply sits there and is prepared to have some of his henchmen in the back benches and opposite, declare the matter carried. I think there are others in this House, however, who just as much right to be heard as those who loudly say "carried." The sum of $390,000 is a considerable item. I have seen some of our friends opposite trotting up and down the back stretches of the province of Ontario within the last few years, crying about the terrible injustice which the farmers of the country had been suffering. Yet they sit here to-night with their mouths shut and have not a word to say. Nor do they say a word on any occasion when any matter affecting the farmers comes up in this House. I suppose, as the hon. member for Maple Creek (Mr. Maharg), would say, they are exercising their political sagacity. Well, I have not been exercising political sagacity during all the time I have been here.

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PRO

John Archibald Maharg

Progressive

Mr. MAHARG:

I rise to a point of order. I never made that statement which the hon. member attributes to me. What I said was that we had been credited, by some hon. members opposite, with exercising political sagacity.

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

My recollection

of the hon. gentleman's statement is as I have stated. However, I will accept his correction. But it is rather remarkable, Mr. Chairman, that while these Estimates are under consideration-

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L LIB

Andrew Ross McMaster

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McMASTER:

I also rise to a point of order. I understand that we are discussing the item:

Health of animals, administration of the Animal Contagious Diseases, and Meat and Canned Foods Acts.

And I am quite unable to see what any reference to the political opinions or practices of the United Farmers has to do with that item. The item has been very thoroughly discussed and if there is to be further talk upon it I think it should be more relevant. I submit that with all respect, Mr. Chairman.

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

I am not going to accept any responsibility for the density of the hon. member for Brome. I do not think it is necessary to show the connection between those members who are calling

"Carried, carried" and the item itself. There is, however, a direct connection because of the desire of these gentlemen to get away from this item without having the matter discussed, or without having any explanation from the minister. I think we are entitled to some further explanation other than we have yet received as to why there is an increase of $390,000. We are entitled to know what these men are going to do and whether the minister is going to accept their statements in preference to the statements of responsible citizens of this country. I have given the statements of reliable citizens from their affidavits to-night and yet you are not prepared to admit-

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L LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Laurier Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Order. I must draw the attention of the hon. member to the rule that all remarks must be addressed to the Chair. It would be well if that rule were strictly adhered to.

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

I bow to your

ruling, Mr. Chairman.

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PRO

John Archibald Maharg

Progressive

Mr. MAHARG:

I desire to ask a question. It is quite evident from the remarks you are making-

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Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order.

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UNION
UNION

John Allister Currie

Unionist

Mr. CURRIE:

The hon. member is out

of Order.

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PRO

John Archibald Maharg

Progressive

Mr. MAHARG:

The point is this, Mr. Chairman, I want to ask the hon. member if he is of the opinion that I am one of those who have been shouting "carried" tonight?

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

It is not necessary for me to answer the question. I think it is evident from the direction in which a good many of the interjections originated.

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PRO

John Archibald Maharg

Progressive

Mr. MAHARG:

I rise to a point of order again. I have never at any time to-night said "carried" to any one item.

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UNION

John Allister Currie

Unionist

Mr. CURRIE:

That is not a point of order.

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

The interjections

during this discussion have been somewhat significant and remarkable. I do not want to prolong this debate nor do I want to be unreasonable. I think that I have been both fair and reasonable in my presentation of the claim of this party who has suffered loss at the hands of these inspectors. I think that I have a perfect right to have some further information from the minister as to why there should be an in-

crease of $390,000 for the appointment of more inspectors in his department at the present time.

Mr. TOLMIE,: For about two hours I

have been trying to tell the hon. member for South Oxford and other hon. members what we propose to do with the amount asked for, and I think nearly everybody has now got a fair idea of how the money is to be expended. With regard to this particular case I have no particular objection to reviewing it personally and looking into the matter. I do not want to do anything that is unfair but up to the present moment I must say, that having received a report from the Veterinary Director General and getting further information in conversation with him, I have not seen anything to indicate that this man complied with the law and that he is entitled to compensation. However, if the committee, or any particular member of it, so desires I shall be only too glad to go into the subject very carefully, and if there is reasonable ground for going any further I will do so.

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L LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Laurier Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall the item carry?

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UNION

Donald Sutherland

Unionist

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

I have listened, I think, as patiently as any hon. member has done to the minister's statements with reference to the item before us, and I have not heard him give any explanation as to why there should be this large increase in connection with this branch of his department.

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March 17, 1921