June 29, 1920

UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

The effect of the last clause of the Bill is to do away with any provision, so far as this increase is concerned, which entitles a man to retire with full pay, leaving as it is the provision that a man who has served fifteen years or more may retire with two-thirds of his salary. Any man who to-day comes under the law which entitles him after a certain period of time to retire with full pay will be entitled, when tfie time comes, only to the pay as it stands to-day, without the increase.

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UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

Is it not possible that the proportionate allowance of the larger salary may be better than the full allowance of the lower salary?

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

I do not think that is possible. The present increase is $2,000; the total salary does not increase by more than one-third.

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Section agreed to. On section 12-repeal of provision making judges liable to taxation who received an increase under Act of 1919.


UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

I notice that the provision with respect to extra payment to judges -which, I think, is a wise provision-does not extend to any of the judges below the Superior Courts. Why should not this provision extend to the gentlehien to whom we voted an extra $1,000 last year and for whom we have just provided another $1,000?

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

I think that ia quite proper. We can amend section 12 by adding after the word "Superior" in the second line, the words "Circuit, County or District."

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UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

Would it not be better simply to say, "no judge shall receive any remuneration" and so on?

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

I accept that suggestion.

/I move that section 12 be amended by striking out from the second and third lines of subclause 1 of 34 the following words:

-of the Supreme Court of Canada, the Exchequer Court of Canada, or of any Provincial Superior Court.

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L LIB

Andrew Ross McMaster

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McMASTER:

Might I draw the attention of the Minister of Justice to the fact that by broadening his clause in this way he would cut out the police magistrate who, I presume, would be a judge, whose salary might be very small and who might be asked to do very important work outside of his duties. Perhaps that is the intention and it may be a good thing, but I wish to point it out.

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

A judge of the police

court is not a judge under this Act at all. He is not appointed by the Dominion Government, and this Act would have no application to him.

Mr. MoMAlSTER: In common parlance

he is called a judge.

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

I think we can safely

assume that in an Act of this Parliament of Canada dealing with salaries of judges appointed by the Dominion Government, a judge means a judge under this Act. The salary of a police magistrate would be ultra vires. We have no authority over a police magistrate.

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UNI L

Thomas Alexander Crerar

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CRERAR:

Would the minister explain the purport of this amendment again, because it is quite impossible to hear down at this end of the Chamber.

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

The clause as it stood prescribed that no judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, the Exchequer Court, or any Provincial Superior Court, shall receive any remuneration in addition to his salary for acting as Administrator or Deputy of the Governor General, or for the performance of any executive or judicial duties that he might be called upon to perform by the Dominion or by the province. The amendment strikes out the enumeration of particular courts so as to make the provision apply to a judge of any court, that is, 281

of course, any court coming under our authority and under this Act.

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Amendment agreed to.


UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

A provision is very

properly made that, in case of these additional services, judges shall be allowed out of pocket expenses. But the words used are "shall be entitled to his moving or transportation expense and living allowance." If he is travelling, the living allowance will be all right, but if he is doing some work in the place where he lives, he ought not to have any living allowance.

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

The hon. gentleman

will notice this reads: "his moving or transportation expenses and living allowance at the rate provided by section 18 of this Act," that is, of the Act we are amending, not clause 18 of this Bill. Section 18 of the Act prescribes the conditions upon which a man gets a living allowance; he gets a living allowance when he is absent from his home living in some place other than the place of his usual or official residence as a judge.

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UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

If it is as clear as my right hon. friend says, I have no objection. That a judge should get a living allowance when he is travelling is perfectly right, but if, say, an Ottawa judge is called upon to perform some duties in this city, he should not have a living allowance.

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UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. DOHERTY:

I want to make it perfectly dear and we shall make it perfectly clear by using the phrase "at the rate and on the conditions provided by section 18." I, therefore, move to further amend subclause (2) of clause 12 by inserting after the word "rate" in line 10 on page 8 of the Bill, the following words, "and upon the conditions." The clause will now read:

Shall be entitled to his moving or transportation expenses and living allowance at the rate and upon the conditions provided by section 18 of this Act.

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Amendment agreed to.


UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

In subclauee (2) at the foot of page 7, I think it would be better to strike out the enumeration of judges as we did in the preceding suhclause, so that it will read, "every judge who may be nominated."

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June 29, 1920