June 16, 1920

CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Probably some time limit might be put on overdrafts. I do not know whether it should be, but that is something we can discuss conveniently when we have the details of the Bill before us. A Bill must be brought down. This is something that cannot be made effective by resolution, because the question of stamp taxation must be supported by a Bill, and when that Bill is in committee my hon. friend will have an opportunity of criticising its provisions.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

I have no desire to be merely critical; I want to see that legislation is fair to every one when it is brought down.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

So that hon. gentlemen may have the information before them, I would point out that in the United 230-1

States the tax on promissory notes and *each renewal per hundred or fraction is 2 cents. That is the item in their schedule. I would further point out to hon. members who have discussed the question of overdraft that in the United States, where undoubtedly a very large amount of commercial business is carried on very successfully, overdrafts are absolutely illegal.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

Archibald Blake McCoig

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McOOIG:

I would direct the minister's attention again to the unfairness of this tax. If a man borrows $5,000 from a bank for three months, he has to pay a tax and when he renews the note he pays again. He renews it again and he will have to pay the tax. He will have to pay it four times in one year; whereas a business man who goes to a private individual and borrows money for carrying on his business has only to pay the tax once. The minister is penalizing the man who is trying to do business with the bank or the bank which is trying to give the man assistance to carry on his business. The average money lender will not lend money to a man to carry on his business. The man who borrows from the bank has to pay four times as much as the man who is in the fortunate position that he can go to a private individual and get the money and who has only to pay the tax once.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

William Duff

Laurier Liberal

Mr. DUFF:

I would like to support the view taken by my hon. friend from Kent (Mr. McCoig) in regard to this tax. I am m the unfortunate position where I have to borrow large sums from the bank from time to time to enable me to carry on my business. I do not think the Government should penalize the man who is willing to take a chance on going to the bank to borrow money to carry on his business. The Government is not going to get as much out of that tax as it expects because every dollar that a man pays for 3 p.m. stamps is going to reduce the amount that the Government will get from the business profits tax. It is a poor policy to impose this tax on the business man. I would strongly suggest to the minister that he withdraw the tax.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink

Item agreed to. 9. That a stamp tax of two cents he imposed, levied1 and collected on each share of stock transferred.


CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I beg to move to amend the resolution by striking out the word "share" and substituting therefor the words "$100 of face value or fraction thereof" ,so that it will read:

That a stamp tax of two cents be Imposed, levied and collected on each $100 of face value or fraction thereof of stock transferred.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

Isaac Ellis Pedlow

Laurier Liberal

Mr. PEDLOW:

Would the minister explain what his motive is in making this alteration?

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

We find that in some parts of the country mining stocks are issued for a very small share value and sometimes at such a low rate that a two cent tax really means that the shares would be transferred for nothing.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
?

An hon. MEMBER:

So much the better.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

It may be so much the better but some of the most successful mines at one time had their stock selling at a very nominal rate. I do not know that there have been many more frauds in these small things than there have been in large ones. In some of the provinces and in the United States they have found it necessary to adopt the same basis.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

Isaac Ellis Pedlow

Laurier Liberal

Mr. PEDLOW:

Will stocks selling at four and five cents on the market-which is sometimes the case with mining shares have to pay two cents per share when transferred? There is also a provincial charge of two cents for similar transactions and the necessary result of a transfer of that kind would be nil. You might as well present the whole thing to the Government at once.

Sir HENRY DRAYTON Most Of the stocks that my hon. friend (Mr. Pedlow) speaks of are dollar shares and when they are selling for four cents they are selling on the dollar value. We are not taxing the dollar value hut we are taxing in units of each flOO of value of shares. I do not think the tax can be described as unduly onerous?

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Laurier Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

I rather fancy that the transfer that is referred to in the section is the transfer in the transfer books of the company and does not refer to manual transfer or the transfer of stocks from 'hand to hand on the stock exchange.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

The principle of imposing taxes on this basis is embodied in the resolution. When the Act is drawn, provision can be made to cover the point raised by the hon. gentleman just now, and will be. The tax is imposed on sales in the way in which they are carried on now through the exchanges.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Laurier Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

The Bill ought to so state.

iJSir Henry Drayton.]

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

The Bill ought to so state.

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB
CON

Henry Lumley Drayton (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink
L LIB

Archibald Blake McCoig

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McCOIG:

And so on up?

Topic:   EXCISE TAX RESOLUTIONS CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
Permalink

June 16, 1920