June 14, 1920

L LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Laurier Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall the item carry?

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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

No, we are just beginning the item now. The minister can tell us in two minutes what this appropriation is for. We thought all the time it was for the work of last year.

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?

John William Bell

Mr. ROW ELL:

I do not think my hon. friend is serious in that statement.

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L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR (Guysborough):

I do not think we should pass this item until we find out how an adjustment is to be made with the province of Ontario. We have been told that the province of Ontario received $8,000,000 last year, and we can fairly assume that the province spent a large part of that $8,000,000. The minister tells us that they have now 4,000 houses in course of construction and also that he has increased the value of a house from $3,000 to, I think, $4,000 or $4,500, and if we put the average at $3,000, as my hon. friend (Mr. Cahill) has suggested, the amount that it will cost to build those 4,000 houses will be $12,000,000. That added to the eight millions is more than the share Ontario ought to get out of the $25,000,000. With a view of protecting the other provinces, I think, before we pass this item, the minister should explain how he expects to pay out of this fund $12,000,000 to meet the expenses for building 4,000 houses in Ontario.

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

I have already answered that once or twice, but I shall be glad to answer it again. Ontario does not get one dollar more than her proportionate share of this $25,000,000. Any additional money that is required must be provided by the province itself, and I have sufficient confidence in the Farmer-Labour Government of Ontario to believe that if they have undertaken to provide additional funds to the municipalities, to enable them to complete their housing schemes, they will doi so.

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L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR (Guysborough):

Then the minister was incorrect when he told us that

the department was providing for the construction of 4,000 houses in Ontario.

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

I did not say that the department was providing for the construction of 4,000 houses. My hon. friend asked how many houses had been built and how many were proposed, and I reported to the committee what the provinces reported to us. That is all the information I have. The information I gave to the committee was what the province of Ontario gave in its report to us.

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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

The committee would not be interested in what the province *was doing outside of this appropriation, and this appropriation is the only thing we are interested in now. Is Mr. Adams at the head of^ this department that is spending this $15,000? And what proportion of his time is devoted to the affairs of the Dominion Government?

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

Mr. Adams is not at the head of it, because it comes under the Department of Health, and is under the deputy minister. But Mr. Adams is chief adviser in connection with this scheme, ' and he is not paid anything by the Government in respect of this work. By arrangement with the Commission of Conservation he gives his time to this work; he is paid by the Commission of Conservation.

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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

To whom do the officials, the employees or clerks who look after this work report?

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

They would report to Mr. Adams, and through Mr. Adams to the deputy minister just, the same as such reports would come to the deputy minister in the case of any other branch.

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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

How much of the time of Mr. Adams, through whom this report must go before it gets to the deputy minister, is devoted to the service of the Dominion Government?

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

Last year, I believe, his whole time was devoted to the service of the Government, divided between the Commission of Conservation and the housing work of the Federal Government. This year, I believe he has an arrangement with the Commission of Conservation by which he is entitled to take certain time off, a deduction being made from his salary for the time he takes off, but I am not familiar with the details of that.

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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

The man who is looking after our interests in this matter might be

in Spokane, Washington, or in Texas while the work is going on and the reports made, and we would have to go down there and make a report through him in order to keep track of this business.

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

No difficulty has been experienced in the past.

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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

The minister just told me that in the past this gentleman was devoting all his time to the -affairs of the Dominion of Canada, but that a different arrangement has been in force for some months. Does the minister not think it would be worth while to have in direct charge some man responsible to the deputy minister for the expenditure of this money?

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

I said that there were officials under him. In Mr. Adams' absence, Mr. Parry is at the present time the next man in the office who reports to the deputy minister. There is no difficulty in administration.

Pollution of Boundary waters, $5,000.

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L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR (Guysborough):

Is this

to pay the salary of an official?

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

It is to cover possible

expenditure in connection with the work of the International Joint Commission relating to the pollution of boundary waters. Under the Treaty of 1909 creating the International Joint Commission, provision was made forbidding the pollution of boundary waters to the detriment of the health of the inhabitants of the countries affected. Under that Treaty a reference was made to the International Joint Commission by the United States and Canada to investigate the existing condition of the boundary waters, particularly the St. Lawrence, the Great Lakes, and I think one of the rivers of New Brunswick. They made a very extensive investigation and an exhaustive report, which showed a serious condition of pollution in certain sections of these international waters. There is now pending before the International Joint Commission a reference by the Governments of the United States and Canada to recommend what steps should be taken by the respective countries to put an end to this pollution, whether in the form of a new convention or by legislation to be enacted by the two countries. The Department of Health in Canada and the corresponding department in the United States are the advisers of the International Joint Commission in connection with this matter, and this item is to cover possible expenditure

during the year in connection with that reference.

Mr. -SINCLAIR (Guysborough): At the head office?

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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (Minister presiding over the Department of Health; President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

Anywhere the expenses

may arise. It would cover travelling expenses, for instance. As a matter of fact the deputy minister and one assistant has already had to meet the International Joint Commission and the American experts. It might 'be that we shall have to get expert assistance in connection with this reference. This is not a hard-and-fast sum, but it is just to cover possible expenditure. I do not know that we shall require it all.

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June 14, 1920