November 6, 1919

UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

In giving gratuities in a lump sum, would t'he hon. gentleman agree with Mr. Flynn's proposal that all other [Government work should stop, that the departments should be abolished and that .the soldiers should be allowed to drift?

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER:

No, I do not agree that anything should stop, I think these services should go on just the same, even though you give the gratuity. It will have a tendency to encourage men during the coming winter to seek to get work rather than to sit down and say that there are $40,000,000 or $50,000,000 that is going to be applied to us whether we work or not, and we are not going to be too anxious to get work. By extending the gratuity you will encourage a man to be anxious to get work and in many cases the money will be used by the returned mam to purchase tools, to establish himself in business, or applied in any way that he feels disposed, to the best advantage of the person receiving it.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

Would my hon. friend allow me a further question as to the amount of the gratuity that he is in favour of?

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER:

The same amount as has been applied in the last six months under the old system. You now give a gratuity to be applied in instalments, over six months, and amounting .to $420. I propose to extend

that for a further six months by giving them an amount equal to what they have already received. That would, according to our present expenditure for gratuities, amount to something like $153,000,000.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

Richard Clive Cooper

Unionist

Mr. COOPER:

As the gratuities are graded according to length of service, some men are getting a gratuity for three months, some for four and some for. six months. Would you apply the gratuity for three, four, or six months?

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER:

I would apply it for three months, if a man was out of work, say, in January, February and March. This would get you over the severe part of the winter.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

William Stewart Loggie

Unionist

Mr. LOGGIE:

Is that charity?

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER:

No, that is not charity. It is something that I feel the returned soldier is entitled to, and I think we can very well afford1 it. I would like to make some suggestions later along that line. I believe that we might receive a large amount of revenue in addition to what is necessary to carry on the work of the Government.

I know that in presenting their applications to the committee, one section of the Great War Veterans suggested that the man who went to France should receive $2,000, the man who went to England $1,500, and the man who remained in Canada, $1,000. The payment of these gratuities would require a very large amount, which I think was estimated at $800,000,000. We all feel the country cannot afford to make such a huge expenditure as that. Another branch of the organization were a little more modest; and were not disposed to make such an extreme demand; what they asked for was considerably less but it would perhaps total three or four hundred million dollars. Still another branch of the organization were even more modest in their proposition which would have involved the payment of a lesser sum than would the second of these other requests1. I am yet more modest in my views than either of these three, and I suggest that we can afford to repeat the gratuity that we have already granted. The Great War Veterans object to the grant which has been recommended of some $40,000,000, and personally I do not think it should be applied in the way proposed, because it appears to be too much like charity. I think that after paying due regard to all the facts of the case, and duly weighing the views of the various members of the House and the suggestions they have advanced as to how the needed revenue might be raised, it is

not unreasonable that we should give the extra gratuity. It is better to do that than to have our veterans walking the streets and asking for charity. If we allowed that condition of affairs to prevail it would be a calamity and a disgrace to Canada. I think the Great War Veterans deserve better of this country than to be handed out anything that would have the remotest resemblance to charity. I think Canada should pay to the extent that she is able to do, and that it is possible for her to find the necessary funds for the purpose. A great many people advance the argument that Canada is not able to pay any further gratuity. According to the report of the committee which is now before us it was thought $35,000,000 would be the limit; but after second thought, and without any serious investigation on the part of those concerned, this amount was advanced to $50,000,000. If it was possible to make this jump of a few millions so easily without further investigation, it is possble to agree upon $153,000,000 and give the soldiers another grant equal to what they have already been receiving.

It now becomes my duty to advance some suggestions as to the sources from which we might derive further revenue. Those suggestions may not appeal to members generally; and though from some sources the revenue yielded may appear to be small yet in the aggregate they will yield a very large amount.

First, I would apply a special tax on all farm lands throughout Canada.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

Does the hon. gentleman say " farm lands?"

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER:

Yes, farm lands of every description. We have not made very severe demands on the farming community in Canada for means to carry on the war. We have not, hitherto, levied any very special tax on that community-in fact I think they have escaped almost scot free. We know that by reason of the great demand for farm products the farming community have realized many millions of dollars, so that if, for this purpose, we should make a levy upon the farm lands of the Dominion, no complaint could be raised by the farmers themselves nor even by the landowners.

Then I would suggest the imposition of a special tax on all automobiles in the Dominion. It may be said that we have already imposed a large tax on automobiles. Each province has levied a tax of a considerable amount; hut the Dominion should also levy a special tax to help to meet the soldiers' demands and it might be collected

through the provinces'in the same way as the city collected for the provinces the special war tax which the latter demanded. The revenue for this purpose might be collected by the provinces and handed over to the Dominion. We know that there are hundreds of thousands of automobiles throughout the Dominion, and that the province of -Ontario is deriving almost $2,000,000 a year from this source. If we applied a special automobile tax throughout the whole Dominion, it would produce a very considerable revenue.

Then I suggest a special tax on all luxuries and I would begin by taxing theatre chairs. There is already a tax on tickets of admission to theatres, and the Provincial Government has a special tax; but when we consider that in the large majority of theatres, such as vaudeville and picture shows, one chair is occupied perhaps several times in the course of the day, thus producing a revenue of $4 or $5 per diem, and how enormously these theatres are patronized throughout the Dominion, we realize what a large revenue can be derived therefrom.

I would also propose a special tax on all steamboats. I am told that this is a very remunerative line of business, from which a revenue of millions of dollars is derived. There are many hundreds of them in operation throughout the country and a special tax on steamboats would also yield a very large revenue.

A further suggestion I make-one which I proposed to the city of Toronto hut which they did not adopt-is to impose a tax upon all bachelors in the Dominion.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER:

We know there are many thousands of bachelors in this country and they are not burdened with the same responsibilities as married men. They earn' good incomes; and ought to contribute towards carrying on the work of the State and meeting the demands of the soldiers and their widows. If they object to paying the tax, they can marry some of the widows. In that way they can assume some of the existing responsibilities and take charge of a number of the orphans. _

Then, a special tax could be levied upon all aliens in this country who are earning large amounts; a tax of this kind should yield a large revenue. I suggest also^ a special tax on all high grade teas; a special tax on all fancy sugars and high grade candies; a special tax on all timber limits;

a special tax on all gold and silver mines; a special tax on all iron and coal mines; a special tax on all horse power of electricity developed.

These are a few suggestions that I have in mind by the adoption of which a large revenue could be secured without serious injury to any one. On the contrary, the persons subject to the tax would 'be doing the right thing as good, loyal Canadians and showing their appreciation of what the soldiers have done for Canada and for the Empire.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

May I ask the hon. member a question by way of elaboration? He says that he would levy a special tax on all farm lands. Would he not apply the same principle to cities like Toronto, Montreal, Hamilton and London and other large centres? Would he not tax city property as well as farm lands?

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMAS FOSTER:

Yes.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

The hon. member would do that?

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMAS FOSTER:

I agree to that, yes.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

The hon. member did not mention that; I thought he had overlooked it.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. THOMAS FOSTER:

Not at all. The hon. gentleman proibably has it in mind that the people of Toronto, the city which I represent, would resent imy approving of a levy on property in that city. I think that the people of Toronto or of any other loyal city in Canada would not object to the levying of a tax upon properties in those cities as well as a tax upon farm lands throughout the country.

At two previous sessions I drew to the attention of the House a source of revenue, an opportunity of raising a large amount of money without hardship-indeed, from people who, I am sure, would have a perfect right to pay. If we had put that plan into operation at the time that I suggested it, we would have raised hundreds of millions of dollars and thus met every demand that has foeen made by the Great War Veterans. We had in this country during the war hundreds of thousands of aliens, who were earning five, ten and fifteen dollars a day, year in and year out. They were all well-to-do, some of them wealthy. As I stated on that occasion, many of them were carrying belts containing thousands of dollars. What has occurred since I made

that statement? The war is now over; the .munition factories have closed down and these aliens are leaving the country in thousands. I noticed only a few days ago that in New York city some six thousand aliens were anxious to get transportation across to Europe, and it was said that these people were taking back to their own country many millions of dollars-I forget the rough estimate that was made of the amount. There was an opportunity that we had, but we were too slow or too indifferent or too sensitive to apply to the alien these methods of raising revenue. The alien would not have objected, because he was making enormous sums. He was not living extravagantly; he was living economically, saving a very large propor^ tion of his earnings. You can appreciate the many hundreds of millions of dollars that went out of Canada to these foreign countries. These sums will, of course, go to help ibuild up these foreign countries, at the expense of Canada and at the expense of our Great War Veterans.

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

Francis Ramsey Lalor

Unionist

Mr. LALOR:

How would you propose to collect that tax?

Topic:   THE SUGAR SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Sub-subtopic:   DEBATE ON CONCURRENCE IN THE REPORT OP THE SPECIAL, COMMITTEE.
Permalink

November 6, 1919