November 5, 1919

L LIB

Thomas Vien

Laurier Liberal

Mr. VIEN:

There is nothing provided for the deficit on the Grand Trunk this year.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

I have been referring to the estimates that were passed by the House at the last session.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. J. H. SINCLAIR:

To the estimates passed at last session the minister adds certain other figures. I understand these other figures will be for future expenditure. My question was: Have we no estimate of the deficits on the other railways in connection with future expenditure?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

I am simply citing the evidence that came before the committee. We went into the matter carefully and as fully as we could. These figures were submitted by the Finance Department. Mr. Boville, the deputy minister, discussed the matter with the Minister of Finance before he left for the West, and these were the figures that were given to us by the Finance Department.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Unionist

Mr. NESBITT:

These are estimates for the future and they include what we call the supplementary estimates.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

Do not be mistaken. These are the estimates for this fiscal year to which must be added these further estimates for the present fiscal year-not for the future but for this fiscal year. They include an item of $15,000,000 on account of the Grand Trunk Pacific, $125,000,000 for credits to Great Britain and Allied countries, $5,000,000 for Halifax relief, and $25 000,000 for housing-loans to provinces- making a total in round numbers of $700,000,000. That represents the commitments of the country at the present time during this fiscal year-$700,000,000. As the report says the above statement shows the class of expenditures that must be provided for during the present fiscal year, and while it is certain that the full amount shown for each item will not be expended it would be safe in the opinion of the committee to estimate a total expenditure under all these heads of not less than $600,000,000. If that is true it would mean that the country and Parliament have before them an expenditure during this fiscal year of $600,000,000. And if this $400,000,000, which has been suggested as being urgently and immediately required for re-establishment purposes is granted it means that the money must he got for this purpose and that we must go out to the people of Canada during this fiscal year and raise in the neighbourhood of $1,000,000,000 in cash. Your committee has come to the conclusion that it is impossible.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

In addition to the present Victory Loan.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

No, that would be including the Victory Loan.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNI L

William Stevens Fielding

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. FIELDING:

The hon. gentleman

says these are sums which must be borrowed. My question is, is that in addition to the Victory Loan, or is the sum total of these amounts covered by the Victory Loan?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

Some of it is covered by the Victory Loan; but I am trying to de-

scribe what the financial situation is in so far as the present fiscal year is concerned. I repeat again, that in so far as we are able to judge from the evidence that has come to us, there is every indication that the country is already committed to expenditures aggregating $700,000,000 during the present fiscal year, for which $600,000,000 must be raised from our people. Now we come to the following year, because you have got to take that into account as well, and in that connection the committee say:

In so far as capital expenditure for the year 1920-21 is concerned no authoritative figures could be obtained by your committee as they are only ascertainable when submitted to and approved by Parliament.

That is, we cannoit forecast, except in a general way, what Parliament, or what the Government, will do so far as Estimates for the next fiscal year are concerned. There are, however, certain items of expenditure that will simply have to be met, and we have endeavoured to estimate them. In the first place, we were told by the Deputy Minister of Finance, on the best information he had available, that the Militia Department in order to clean up the work of demobilization would require at least another $50,000,000. Now the vote of $350,000,000 which we took this year was not all for demobilization. That $350,000,000 demobilization appropriation takes care of gratuities. It also takes care to some extent of advances to foreign countries in the shape of credits, and that sort of thing; but the estimate that reached us was that next year it will take a least $50,000,000 to clean up the work of demobilization, and I am inclined to think that estimate is reasonable. Then, so far as Soldiers' Settlement is concerned, our total estimate to carry on that work to completion was $150,000,000, and in the statement I have here we are only providing $45,000,000 for this year. We find it will take at least $50,000,000 for next year, and that would only make a total of $95,000,000, as against a total estimate of $150,000,000.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

Alfred Ernest Fripp

Unionist

Mr. FRIPP:

How many men will this $150,000,000 place on farms?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

I cannot give that figure offhand. The amount of each loan has been averaging in the neighbourhood of $3,500 and if the hon. gentleman uses his pencil he will get at the number himself. The committee, as I say, have made an estimate and personally I am inclined to think it is a very conservative one; I think probably the hon. gentleman (Mr. J. H.

Sinclair) will agree with that. That is to say we have placed an estimate in the report for capital expenditures that will probably have to be voted by Parliament at its next session, for public buildings, canals, railways, 'Shipbuilding, harbours, and so on.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
Permalink
L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. J. H. SINCLAIR:

I would strike out the item for shipbuilding.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

We have indicated the

possible class of expenditures that may have to be provided for and we have put a total estimate there of $60,000,000, and then credits to Great Britain, France, etc., amounting to $50,000,000.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
Permalink
L LIB

Charles Murphy

Laurier Liberal

Mr. MURPHY:

Does that "etc." cover Roumania?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

It may cover everything that, may be found necessary.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
Permalink
L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. J. H. SINCLAIR:

Since the minister referred to me personally, if he will accept my suggestion he will omit the item for shipbuilding.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

James Alexander Calder (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Unionist

Mr. CALDER:

There may be some difference ot opinion as to whether shipbuilding is necessary or not.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
Permalink
UNION

John Allister Currie

Unionist

Mr. CURRIE:

With respect to the money that was advanced to Great Britain and other countries, is it not money that was handed to our farmers to pay for foodstuffs that were sent to those countries, and is it not money that is going from one pocket into another?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE FOSTER:

They are credits.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON SOLDIERS' CIVIL RE-ESTABLISHMENT.
Subtopic:   MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN REPORT OF THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE.
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November 5, 1919