October 28, 1919

KING OF BELGIUM NOT TO VISIT CANADA.


On the Orders of the Day:


UNION

George Eulas Foster (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Unionist

Rt. Hon. Sir GEORGE FOSTER:

Several days ago I was asked whether an invitation had been extended to Their Majesties the King and Queen of Belgium to visit Canada, and if so, whether it had been

accepted. I was not able to say at the time whether the invitation had been accepted or not. An invitation has been sent, and Their Majesties regret very much that owing to the shortness of time at their disposal on this continent they will not be able to visit Canada as they would very much have liked to do.

Topic:   KING OF BELGIUM NOT TO VISIT CANADA.
Permalink

GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.

BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.


House again in committee on Bill No. 33, respecting the acquisition by His Majesty of the Grand Trunk Railway System. Mr. Boivin in the Chair.


L LIB

Georges Henri Boivin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Laurier Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

When the committee rose last night we had adopted clause 2 of the Bill.

On clause 3-provisions of agreement.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs and Inland Revenue; Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

The hon. member for Chateauguay-Huntingdon (Mr. Robb) asked me in regard to the equipment of the Grand Trunk, and the following is a statement showing the equipment in service as of June 30, 1919:

Grand Trunk Railway System.

Equipment in service, June 30, 1919.

Company.

Grand Trunk Railway Company, owned.. ..

Cincinnati, Saginaw and Michigan, owned.. .. Grand Trunk Western Railway, owned " " " " leased

Total

Detroit, Grand Haven and Milwaukee Railway,

owned

leased

Total

Toledo, Saginaw and Muskegon Railway, owned Pontiac, Oxford and Northern Railroad, oWned St. Clair Tunnel Company, owned

Total system

We could only estimate the value of the equipment; but if you take all the cars, roughly at, say $3,000 each-and that would be a very low estimate when you consider that a large number are passenger cars- that would mean about $140,000,000 for cars, and if you take the locomotives roughly at, say $30,000 each, that would mean about $40,000,000 for locomotives, or a total of about $180,000,000 for equipment on the road. The total against this in equipment bonds is $5,491,000.

I think that answers my hon. friend's question, except that he wanted to know what part of the equipment was owned by Blai^ & Company and what, part by the Columbia Trust Company. The officials tell me that they have not that information separately for, these two firms. Blair & Company and the Columbia Trust Company only have a mortgage on the equipment. That is included in the $5,491,000. I am told that quite a number of the engines with Blair & Company's plate on have been paid for and are now owned by the Grand Trunk. I suppose the plate is not taken off when the engine is paid for, which

Freight Pass. Work Total Loco- Horsecars. cars. cars. cars. motives. Power.37,158 1,007 2,201 40,366 1,124 1,438,6346 4 10 3 2,0065,337 68 75 5,480 162 131,020645 49 694 5,982 ' 68 124 6,174 43 23 32 38 8 6,2311 3 4 44 23 35 102 3 4 4 11 11 5 6 22 1 3 4 6 4,50043,205 1,107 2,377 46,689 1,303 1,582,391

is apt to give the impression that the engines are owned by Blair & Company.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
L LIB

James Alexander Robb (Chief Government Whip)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

The minister is satisfied that the locomotives with the iron plate bearing Blair & Company's name are the property of the Grand Trunk, subject in some oases to bonds being outstanding against them?

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs and Inland Revenue; Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

Yes.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
L LIB

James Alexander Robb (Chief Government Whip)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

And there is a possibility that the name of Blair & Company appears on locomotives in respect of which the bonds have been redeemed?

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs and Inland Revenue; Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

Yes.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
L LIB

James Alexander Robb (Chief Government Whip)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

Does the minister understand that the Grand Trunk system have sufficient locomotives and cars for their operations?

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs and Inland Revenue; Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. REID:

I understood when discussing the question of equipment last session that the Grand Trunk, taking into account the equipment that we had purchased, had practically sufficient locomotives and cars for their road. Of course, every year a certain number of engines become useless or obsolete, and have to be replaced. That

is charged to operation, but in this blue-book it is under tne head of capital account.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
L LIB

James Alexander Robb (Chief Government Whip)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I have noticed during the past six months that a number of trains on the Grand Trunks are hauled by locomotives on which is printed "-Canadian Government Railways'' or " National Transcontinental." Are these locomotives loaned or leased to the Grand Trunk?

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs and Inland Revenue; Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

The hon. member will remember that during the war we purchased a large number of engines, a certain number of which we leased to the Grand Trunk. That is a common practice between railways. The Grand Trunk pays a rental for the engines, practically on the same basis as the equipment trust plan. That accounts for the name being on the engines.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
L LIB

James Alexander Robb (Chief Government Whip)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

Does that mean that the

Grand Trunk have not sufficient locomotives of their own Are their locomotives tied up in the yard, or why is it that they have to lease locomotives from the Government?

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs and Inland Revenue; Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

During the war the Grand Trunk was short of engines, and could not get engines built as Government orders took up all the space in the shops. So we leased locomotives to the Grand Trunk on a rental basis which will pay for the engines in a certain time. The Canadian Pacific has also leased engines from us, and we have leased engines from them. At the time these engines were leased to the Grand Trunk, that road had not sufficient engines for their traffic. We could not use these engines if we took them back now, as we have enough already. They represent an investment on which the Government is getting interest, and is being repaid the principal. When iwe take over the road, they will be part of the whole system.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

I think it would be

more satisfactory if the minister would deal with the Grand Trunk proper, and then with the subsidiary companies. Yesterday the President of the Council, as well as the Minister of Railways, told us that we were not so very much concerned "about the subsidiary companies, because we were not undertaking to guarantee their liabilities, 'and we could see later on whether they would be a desirable undertaking or not. But the minister in his statement to-day gave the number of locomotives and cars and other equipment for these sub-

sidiary companies as well as the Grand Trunk.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs and Inland Revenue; Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

No. The statement I read showed the number of cars for the Grand Trunk system proper. The equipment for any subsidiary companies I mentioned was given separately.

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY SYSTEM.
Subtopic:   BILL PROVIDING FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Permalink

October 28, 1919