October 16, 1919

L LIB
UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It is not different; there is no substantial difference at all.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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L LIB
UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

We get into a far better position, and therefore there is all the more reason for accepting it, and it would be all the more disgraceful if we retired from it. Because it is better for us is surely not a reason why we should retire from it. Would the leader of the Opposition (Mr. McKenzie) have us say to the Grand Trunk: We made you an offer in the month of July, 1918; we let it stand open until now; now you come forward and accept it and give us a little better terms. If you had accepted it before, we would have taken it, but as you did not accept it before, and now that you give us a little better terms, we will not accept it. [DOT]

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

That is neither law nor business. The moment the Grand Trunk people refused the offer of July 11, 1918, that was the end of the transaction, and we were not bound by it any longer.

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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I do not contend that

we were bound.

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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

Then, why is the

minister saying that we should take it?

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Because we left the offer open. We could have retreated or withdrawn from it at any minute.

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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

It was closed. We made an offer; it was not accepted; that is the end of it; it is not open any longer.

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It is not open unless

we leave it open.

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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

It is not open.

We made them an offer; that is all we could do about the matter. The company refused it; that is the end of it in law. i

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It is, unless they know that we are keeping it open, and they knew it by the negotiations. The hon. gentleman knew that, and I will tell him why. In the speech of the Minister of Finance of that day, he made it clear that the position of the Government at that time was

represented in the letter of July 11, and ithat was months .afterwards. Therefore, the hon. gentleman knew that the offer was open.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

I have stated my position ar.d my position is right; that is the .end of it.

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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

There is more Scotch finality than Scotch logic in the hon. member

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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L LIB

Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin

Laurier Liberal

Mr. DEVLIN:

Now that that point is settled, will the minister allow me to revert to my question of a moment ago, in answer to which he said: We are not going to transfer any of the stock that the Government is going to acquire. Did I understand him to say that?

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

That is right.

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L LIB

Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin

Laurier Liberal

Mr. DEVLIN:

Then what is meant by clause 5 of the resolution:

That the value, if any, of the first, second and third preference stocks and the common or ordinary stock of the Grand Trunk now issued and outstanding to the face values above mentioned (hereafter together called the "preference and common stock"), shall be determined by a board of three arbitrators, one to be appointed by the Government, one by the Grand Trunk, and the third by the two so appointed, or, failing agreement, by judges to be designated in the said agreement. No guaranteed stock, to an amount not exceeding the value, if any, so determined, carrying a dividend as hereinbefore authorized shall be distributed among the holders of the preference and common stock, upon the transfer to or vesting in the Government of such stock, in proportions which shall be determined by the arbitrators.

Then by a subsequent clause the Government may call in at par, after thirty years and1 upon six months' notice, any of the stock it desires. 'The purpose of the Government in taking over this stock is simply to turn it into a new form of stock to be called the new guaranteed stock, which the Government intends to guarantee and1 then transfer it to the holders of the common, first, second and1 third preference stocks.

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I have no objection at all to the hon. gentleman asking me a question but he should not make so long a speech as to half empty the House before I get through with inline.

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L LIB
UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

What 'the hon. member asked me first was whether we were going to' transfer to somebody else the stock that we acquired.

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Subtopic:   V072 COMMONS
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October 16, 1919