July 7, 1919

CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENT -SEXUAL OFFENCES.

UNION

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Unionist

Mr. SPEAKER:

I have the honour to inform the House that I have received the following message from the Senate:

That a message be sent to the House of Commons by one of the Clerks at the Table, to inform that House, that the Senate doth insist on its amendment to the Bill No. 78, intituled "An Act to amend the Criminal Code (Sexual Offences)" to which the House of Commons hath disagreed.

Hon. ARTHUR MEIGiHEN (Acting Minister of Justice): With regard to Bill No. 78 to amend the Criminal Code (Sexual' Offences) the Senate has insisted on the insertion of clause 5 by way of an amendment to the Bill in respect to which this House refused to agree. I beg to move:

That this House do insist on its disagreement to clause 5 of Bill No. 78, an Act to amend the Criminal Code (Sexual Offences).

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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

Do I understand the

Acting Minister of Justice to say that if we persist in our opposition to the amendment the Bill fails for this session?

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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Yes.

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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

I would very much prefer that the Bill should go through with the Senate amendment in it. After all, it is merely to leave a discretion with the jury and the judge. I do not view the

effect of the Senate amendment as the* Acting Minister of Justice does. The Bill, I think, is very good.

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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The Senate amendment renders ineffective the clause of the Bill which we have passed in that the law as so amended would he in precisely the same condition, as to efficiency, as before. But there is still another effect. The law as it stands to-day provides the punishment for most of the offences that are covered by the legislation-not for all-and in respect of punishment, there is no provision that the judge must instruct the jury that they must weigh the culpability of the male and the female. If the judges were to instruct the jury as to this provision of the law in that way, the law would be very much weaker after the passage of the Bill than it was before.

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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

Is it not just one particular section dealing with registration in an hotel that has been stricken out?

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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

That clause was struck out but we agreed to that amendment. We agreed to everything except the clause which the Senate added, which clause is a direction to the judge, in the trial of any man accused of an offence against any of the three previous provisions, to instruct the jury that unless they were of the opinion that the man was wholly or principally to blame they were at liberty to acquit. That applies to all three clauses and, so applying, would, in my judgment, render the law less efficacious than as it stands to-day.

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Motion agreed to.


UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN moved:

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Motion agreed to.


BUSINESS OF THE HOUSES.

PROPOSED LEGISLATION POSTPONED UNTIL NEXT SESSION.


On the Order for Motions:


?

Right Hon. S@

Mr. Speaker, there are two or three measures upon the Order Paper on which I would like to say a word; they are measures that cannot be enacted at the present session. One is Bill No. 46, respecting the Purchasing of Departmental and other Supplies and Materials for His Majesty. This Bill was supported by a very considerable majority of the iHbuse and subsequently there was a good deal of dis-

cuss ion in Committee. Opposition has developed on both sides of the House. In view of the necessity for an early session of Parliament, and in order to take into consideration suggestions that have been made, the Bill will not be further pressed it the present session. The Orders in Council still in force will enable the Government to maintain the principle until Parliament will have another opportunity of dealing with the matter.

With respect to Bill No. 107, for the purpose of validating and continuing certain oiders respecting the prohibition, manufacture, importation, sale and transportation of intoxicating liquors, I adhere to the v:ew expressed in the reasons which were transmitted to the Senate. The acceptance of the Senate amendment would undoubtedly have had the effect which was set forth in those reasons. Under the circumstances, the Bill cannot become law at the present session, but another session will probably be held before the Orde-.s in Council can possibly cease to be in force. This or another measure to accomplish the same purpose will then be submitted to Parliament.

Another measure upon which there has been considerable discussion in this House i.s Bill No. 77, respecting Divorce, which stands No. 11 on Public Bills and orders. Since the debate took place, there has been an announcement in the press that the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council has sustained the decisions of courts in several provinces. Those decisions were to the effect that the provincial courts already have jurisdiction in divorce in the provinces of Manitoba, Alberta and Saskatchewan. The acting Minister of Justice (Mr. Meighen) informs me that the decisions were confined in their effect to two provinces, but the reasons set forth in the judgment sustaining the jurisdiction of the provincial courts would apply also to the other province. Then there is the further consideration that this Bill does not seem to have been circulated amongst the judges of the existing divorce courts in Canada, I think, therefore, that before it is further considered by the House, the suggestions and recommendations of the judges of the various provinces should be received. Steps will be taken during the recess for that purpose.

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POLES AND UKRAINIANS.


Right hon. Sir ROBERT BORDEN (Prime Minister) Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Victoria (Sir Sam Hughes), the hon. member for Edmonton East (Mr. H. A. Mackie), and the hon. member for Winnipeg North (Mr. Blake) asked for certain information with respect to the status of the Ukrainian population in eastern Europe, and I undertook to ascertain what information was available and to convey it to the House before prorogation. While I was in Paris in attendance upon the Peace Conference, two Canadians of Ukrainian origin arrived in London and requested my assistance to proceed to Paris for the purpose of conferring there with representatives of the Ukrainian Republic. Accordingly, I took steps to secure for them the necessary permission. After their arrival in Paris I had several conferences with them, and eventually with M. Syderenko, the President of the Delegation of the Ukrainian Republic, who placed before me strong representations on behalf of his nation. These I transmitted to Mr. Lloyd George and Mr. Balfour and commended them to their consideration. The Ukrainians or Ruthenians of Hungary have, as I understand, been included in the Czechoslovak Republic under a regime established by the Allies which guarantees to them a large measure of autonomy and complete freedom in respect of religious and educational exercises. With respect to the Russian Ukraine, this part of the former Russian Empire has declared itself as an independent republic under the name of the Ukrainian Republic, with its capital at Kiev. It has not yet-been recognized by the Allies. The discussions with regard to that question are confidential, and, in any event, I do not recall them at this moment; but one might hazard a conjecture that the representatives of the five great powers at Paris would hesitate before taking a step which would involve breaking up the Russian Empire, and which might afford some plausible support to the Bolshevist propaganda and theory that such is the intention of the five allied powers. The Ukrainians or Ruthenians of Eastern Galicia have been removed from Austrian domination, but their general position still remains unsettled. Until the eastern frontier of Poland is finally determined, there will undoubtedly be trouble and, perhaps, conflict. The Ukrainians and Ruthenians of Eastern Galiicia have established what is known as the Western Ukrainian Republic. The conflict between the Poles and the Ukrainians is for territory. It is said that the city of Lemberg, in Galicia, is predominantly Polish, but that this Polish population is in the midst of a district in which the majority are Ukrainians. It is principally in this district that the warfare between the Poles and the Ukrainians has proceeded. The principal allied powers have made repeated and earnest efforts to bring about peace between the contending parties. At the opening of the Peace Conference in Paris, the Allies issued a declaration summoning all the peoples of eastern Europe to cease hostilities and to refrain from any attempt to use force in order to assert their territorial claims. Later, an Inter-Allied Mission was sent to Poland and to Lemberg to act as a mediating influence, the result being that a truce was brought about between the Poles and the Ukrainians on February 24. The truce however, was not observed. The Inter-Allied Mission continued its efforts to secure the conclusion of an armistice. This mission having failed, the matter was transferred to Paris, and on March 19, the Council of Ten sent a telegram to the commanders of the Polish and the Ukrainian forces requesting them to cease hostilities, and saying that the Council of Ten was ready to hear the territorial claims of both parties and to act with the Ukrainian and Polish delegations in Paris with a view to changing the suspension of arms into an armistice. The hearing of the claims, however, was made subject to the formal condition of an immediate cessation of hostilities. The subject came again before the Council of Five on April 26. Various solutions of the difficult questions involved have been proposed but for the present, these are confidential. It was found impossible to settle the frontiers of Poland in the disputed region without determining at the same time the future status of Eastern Galicia. The Poles have attempted to justify their expeditions into Eastern Galicia on the ground that they were directed not against the Ukrainian nation, but against Bolshevism. Mr. Paderewski, speaking in the Polish Diet on May 24, said that Poland did not aim at imperialist conquests, but was ready to bring aid to Ukrainia and free her territories from Bolshevist oppression. The Peace Conference, having expressed a desire for peace on all fronts, he had promised to do all in his power to conclude an armistice as well as to conform with the demand that General Haller's troops should not fight against the Ukrainians, It was probable he stated, that General Haller's troops would fight on the Ukrainian front, but only against the Bolsheviks-. Mr. Paderewski concluded by asking the Diet to authorize the Polish Gov-



ernment to negotiate with the Ukrainian Government. On the other hand, the Ukrainians protest that they are just as much opposed to Bolshevism as are the Poles and that they should receive assistance from the Allies, like the Poles. The President of the Ukrainian Republic pressed very strongly upon me at our interview the consideration that the Ukrainian population, which he placed at thirtydive millionĀ®, are largely peasant proprietors whose ideals and influence are absolutely and inflexibly opposed to Bolshevism. The Council of Four apparently felt that the Poles needed some admonition, for on May 27 the President of the Peace Conference sent a telegram to General Pilsudski, the Polish Commander at Warsaw, as follows:- The Council of the principal Allied and Associated Powers feel that it is its duty to call the attention of the Government of Poland to facts which are giving it the greatest concern, and which may lead to consequences for Poland which the Council would deeply deplore. The boundary between Poland and Ukraina is under consideration and is as yet undetermined, and the Council has more than once informed the Polish Government that it would regard any attempt either by Poland or by the Ukrainian authorities to determine it, or to prejudice its determination, by the use of force, as a violation of the whole spirit and an arbitrary interference with the whole purpose of the present conference of peace, to which Poland, at least, has consented to leave the decision of questions of this very sort. The Council has, therefore, more than once insisted that there should be tin armistice on the Ukrainian front, arranged in Paris and under the advice of the Council itself. Full conferences in that matter have been held between a carefully selected inter-Allied Commission and representatives of Poland and Ukrainia, and terms of armistice drawn up which have been formally approved by the Council of the principal Allied and Associated Powers. The representatives of Ukrainia have accepted those terms, but the Polish military authorities while acquiescing in principle have in effect insisted upon such conditions as would amount to a settlement of the very questions in controversy and have continued to use force to maintain their claims. This has inevitably made the impression on the minds of the members of the Council that the Polish authorities, were, in effect, if not in purpose, denying and rejecting the authority of the conference of peace. The Council feels it its duty, therefore, in the most friendly spirit, but with the most solemn earnestness, to say to the Polish authorities that, if they are not willing to accept the guidance and decisions of the conference of peace in such matters, the Governments represented in the Council of the principal Allied and Associated Government will not be justified in furnishing Poland any longer with supplies or assistance. If it is her deliberate purpose to set at naught the counsel proffered by the conference, its authority can no longer, it is feared, be made serviceable to her. The Council will, of course, insist upon an absolute cessation of hostilities on the part of the Ukrainian military forces. That ends the despatch, which seems to be couched in very earnest and impressive language. I might further add that the principles adopted and acted upon at the Peace Conference require adequate guarantees of civil and religious liberty to all racial minorities situated within the boundaries of any newly-created State. I am confident that this principle will be secured to such Ukrainian population, if any, as remains within the boundaries of Poland, when eventually established. This principle has received the strong support of the Canadian plenipotentiaries at the Peace Conference. I may add that a telegram has been despatched to London for the purpose of obtaining the latest information on all matters affecting the Ukrainian Republic and the Ukrainian population.


PEACE TREATY-LABOUR PROVISIONS.

?

Right Hon. S@

" I endeavoured, on behalf of the Labour Commission, to get an agreement on a redraft. I am sorry to say that I was not altogether successful, but 'Sir Robert Borden was more successful than I have been in getting agreement upon a redraft which he is going to submit to this meeting, and which, I have to say, so far^as I can see, does embody the spirit of the nine resolutions which were adopted by the Labour Commission. It is my duty, however, just as a matter of form, to revive the resolutions as they came from the Labour Commission, and to submit those resolutions to you in their original form."

Sir Robert Borden (Canada) ffroposes in the following terms the amended draft of the nine resolutions (Annex II (B)):

44 It is proper that, in the first instance, I should read the amended text which I move as an amendment to that originally proposed:

44 ' The High Contracting Parties, recognizing that the well-being, physical, moral and intellectual, of industrial wage-earners is of supreme international importance, have framed a permanent machinery associated with that of the League of Nations to further this great end.

" ' They recognize that differences of climate, habits and customs, of economic opportunity and industrial tradition, make strict uniformity in the conditions of labour difficult of immediate attainment. But, holding as they do, that labour should not be regarded merely as an article of commerce, they think that there are methods and principles for regulating labour conditions which all industrial communities should en-reavour to apply, so far as their special circumstances will permit.

" ' Among these methods and principles, the following seem to the High Contracting Parties to be of special and urgent importance:

44 4 First.-The guiding principle above enunciated that labour should not be regarded merely as a commodity or article of commerce.

" 4 Second.-The right of association for all lawful purposes by the employed as well as by the employers.

44 4 Third.-The payment to the employed of a wage adequate to maintain a reasonable standard of life as this is understood in their time and country.

44 4 Fourth.-The adoption of an eight hours day or a forty-eight hours week as the standard to be aimed at where it has not already been attained.

44 4 Fifth.-The adoption of a weekly rest of at least twenty-four hours, which should include Sunday wherever practicable.

44 4 Sixth.-The abolition of child labour and the imposition of such limitations on the labour of young persons as shall permit the continuation of their education and assure their proper physical development.

44 4 Seventh.-The principle that men and women should receive equal remuneration for work of equal value.

44 4 Eighth.-The standard set by law in each country with respect to the conditions of labour should have due regard to the equitable economic treatment of all workers lawfully resident therein.

44 4 Ninth.-Each State should make provision for a system of inspection in which women should take part, in order to itisure the enforcement of the laws and regulations for the protection of the employed.

44 4 Without claiming that these methods and [Sir Robert Borden.I

principles are either complete or final, the High Contracting Parties are of opinion that they are well fitted to guide the policy of the League of Nations; and that, if adopted by the industrial communities who are members of the League, and safeguarded in practice by an adequate system of such inspection, they will confer lasting benefits upon the wage-earners of the world.'

That closes the quotation so far as the amended draft is concerned. I then proceeded to speak as follows:

I may say, in the first instance, of this, as President Wilson said of the new drift of the League of Nations, that there are no alterations in substance, as I understand it. There is, however, a new arrangement, and the phraseology has been somewhat altered. For example, the difference of conditions among different nations which was alluded to in paragraph 7 of the articles as originally drafted is now recognized as a consideration which must apply to all the principles here laid down. Further, as it is manifestly impossible to establish at once a code which shall be permanent or enduring, emphasis is laid in the new draft upon the view that these articles are to be regarded as an enunciation of the principles upon which from time to time, if need be, a code may be built up. In the concluding paragraph, emphasis is also laid upon the consideration that these methods and principles are not to be regarded as complete or final. It is quite impossible for us to foresee all developments and all ideals which may arise in the future and, therefore, this is put forward as no more than a tentative enunciation of principles which, if they are observed and carried out as they should be, will result in a vast improvement of labour conditions throughout the world. I desire to explain, also, that the amended articles are not presented here as embodying merely my own language and my own ideas. The suggested changes in phraseology and arrangement have come from the different delegations which are represented in the conference. They have received, I believe, the approval and endorsement of all the important industrial communities.

I am glad to say that I am to be supported in making this proposal by Mr. Vander**elde, whose eloquent and inspiring speech on the subject at a previous session of the conference still dwells in our memory. Therefore, with some confidence and for these reasons I venture to present the amended draft as one which should command the support of this conference.

Mr. Vandervelde (Belgium), speaking in French, expresses his approval of the proposed amendment in the following terms:-

44As Sir Robert Borden has just said, a mere comparison of the two texts suffices to show that there is no essential difference between them. The text proposed by the Commission was more precise, and I may say that my personal preferences were for such precision. However, in the course of the exchange of views which preceded this meeting, we have convinced ourselves that in order to secure unanimity between the representatives of the thirty-two nations, situated in every corner of the globe, a little scumbling, if I may use the phrase, was indispensable.

We have, therefore, slightly scumbled the text, and I give my complete adhesion to the final text proposed by Sir Robert Borden. I do so all the more gladly because, as regards the questions to which European workingmen are more

especially attached, that is syndical liberty, a minimum wage, and the eight-hour day, the two texts are wellnigh identic. Having placed on record the foregoing observations, I beg your leave to propose three amendments to the drafting. .

The French text, line %, speaks of " industrial wage-earners." In agreement with Mr. Fontaine, Director of the French Labour Bureau, I propose to say "paid workers," for it has always been understood, during the labours of the conference, that international labour legislation ought to be applied no less to agricultural wage-earners than to the wage-earners of industry. That is, moreover, the sense of the English text.

Furthermore, in line 3, instead of saying "a permanent machinery," we have thought that the words " a permanent organization " should be substituted. That 'will point out the possibility for growth of the institution which we are about to create.

Finally, at the end of the page (of the French text), instead of " Commission des Nations," I think it would be more accurate to say "League of Nations."

Thereupon this revision of the clauses was unanimously adopted by the Conference [DOT]without a single dissenting voice. Exception seems to have been taken in some quarters to the status accorded to the British Dominions in the League of Nations and in the Labour Convention. Of this I shall speak more fully at another session and on a more appropriate occasion. For the present it is enough to say that the original drafts in both cases were so framed that representatives of (Canada and other self governing British Dominions were not eligible for election to the Council of the League of Nations or 'to the Governing Body of the Labour Convention. I took distinct and emphatic ground on this question and stated my firm determination that representatives of Canada should have this right and my strong opinion that Canada could not continue as a party to the League of Nations or to the Labour Convention on any other terms. This right had been accorded to many small states which had taken no active part in the war and I saw no reason whatever why it should not be accorded to this Dominion. Eventually it was accorded.

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July 7, 1919