May 23, 1919

UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

You would have to lay a new cable, because they do not put telephone circuits in when they are laying these cables. The telegraph is a single wire, while the telephone requires a circuit.

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UNION
UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

If my hon. friend will investigate he will find he cannot get very far on a single wire. It is true the Government telephone system is practically all single wire, but it is an antiquated system. If you are going to put in a telephone system you would have to have two wires. I quite realize that navigation must be looked after, and I believe that many of these cables must be maintained.

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L LIB
UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

Yes. That can be done by wireless in a great .many cases. But I shall have more to say about this matter when we come to another part of the Estimates. I am not willing to lose $400,000 or $500,000 a year in maintaining a telephone and telegraph system when we can get along without losing that amount. I want to treat it as a business proposition.

Saskatchewan and Alberta-Peace River Line -office and 'dwelling at Grande Prairie, $4,000.

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UNION

James McCrie Douglas

Unionist

Mr. J. M. DOUGLAS:

Would it not be possible to do without these telegraph lines in the north country now that the Edmonton and Dunvegan railway has been built to Grande Prairie?

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

So far as the telegraph lines are concerned, in the provinces of Saskatchewan and Alberta there is no necessity lor the Government ever spending another dollar; but perhaps I am going a little too far. There are one or two places where the line must be maintained, from Spirit River and Grand Prairie, for instance, to west of Hudson Hope, because there is no railroad there yet. Then, about fifteen or twenty miles of line has to be maintained around the western end of Lesser Slave lake. There are also ten or twelve miles to be maintained in Saskatchewan. Outside of that, the whole thing could be handed over to a company, and I would suggest handing it over to the Great Northwestern Telegraph Company, as that is now owned by the Government, and let them run the line where it is necessary, as a business proposition, or it could be handed over to the Edmonton and Dunvegan railway, as their line practically parallels ours.

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UNION

Samuel Hughes

Unionist

Sir SAM HUGHES:

Why is it necessary to clear the woods when you can use the railway right-of-way?

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

While the line practically parallels the railway, it deviates from it in many places and trees have to be felled. .

British Columbia-Mainland telegraph and telephone lines-general repairs and improvements, $10,000.

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L LIB
UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

We have many telegraph lines in northern British Columbia that must be maintained as that is the only

means of communication the people have with the outside world. The Yukon line runs from Ashcroft practically up to Dawson. After leaving the Fraser river it strikes the Grand Trunk Pacific at Fort Fraser, some short distance west of Prince George. From there it practically parallels the Grand Trunk Pacific to Hazelton. Some arrangement should be arrived at about this line. There is no reason why both the Government and the Grand Trunk Pacific should maintain telegraph lines paralleling each other for two hundred miles. There is also a line from Hazelton to Prince Rupert paralleling the Grand Trunk Pacific. That should be handed over to the railway. When the Vancouver and Great Eastern is constructed to Prince George, a very large part of the line from Hazelton to Fort Fraser could be handed over, but at present we must maintain it. The line from Hazelton >to Dawson must be maintained by the country. There have been a good many suggestions that communication might be had by wireless between these places. That might be done from Atlin to Fort Fraser, but from there to Dawson you would have to have a land line. When we come to the southern part of British Columbia, it is an entirely different proposition; there it is a telephone proposition pure and simple. But I do not wish to discuss that on this item, it is a question that should be considered very carefully by the House. We could not settle it in one night or one week, or even in a year perhaps. It should be approached purely from a business standpoint.

Miscellaneous-Architectural Branch-salaries of architects, clerics of works, inspectors, draughtsmen, clerks and messengers of out [DOT] side service, $60,000.

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

These are services that are maintained annually, the architectural branch, salaries of architects, draughtsmen, clerks, messengers, etc. These are men that we utilize in the Outside Service to go round the country for inspection purposes and things of that kind.

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UNION

Herbert John Mackie

Unionist

Mr. H. J. MACKIE:

Does this

department derive any revenue from the building of the tremendously large reservoirs on the upper Ottawa river?

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UNI L
UNION

Herbert John Mackie

Unionist

Mr. H. J. MACKIE:

These large dams control the supply of water in the Ottawa. From the Timiskaming down to Ottawa city many miles might be benefited, but it seems that the dams are maintained and operated expressly for the benefit of cer-

tain mills in and around the Chaudiere and the Deschenes, while the mills on the upper Ottawa, that is, the boom area, can go practically dry. Protests are probably considered, but it is the large mills in and around Ottawa that derive 98 per cent of the benefit. Personally I think it would be well within reason that the mills in and around Ottawa should contribute somewhat to the upkeep of these improvements.

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

This is the first time

I have heard this question raised. One would naturally suppose that a storage proposition benefiting a mill on one part of the river would benefit mills on other parts of the same river. However, there may be some conditions that I am not acquainted with.

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UNION
UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

There is no doubt that

these works were built expressly for the purpose of controlling the water in the Ottawa river, and there is no doubt also that they have been a wonderful boon to the water-power development in Ottawa and other places along the river. I have been told by gentlemen interested in the waterpower development of the Chaudiere that these works have practically doubled the capacity of electrical plants around this city. While we receive no revenue from these works-and I am not sure that the Government should engage in them-yet there is no doubt that they constitute the proper scheme for all parts of the country, and I only wish it were possible that the proper authority, whichever it might be, could carry on such works in every part of Canada. I am a great believer in water-power development, and the only way we can increase the capacity of our water-power is by storage dams.

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UNION
L LIB

May 23, 1919