April 25, 1919

UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

Suppose the creditors or the inspectors say to the trustee: " We are going to give you a very small amount." Why should he not have the right to go to the court? The creditors may give too much or too little. I think the remedy

should be reciprocal; if either party is dissatisfied, let him have the matter reviewed by the court. I do not anticipate any difficulty, because the next section, I think, will be the guiding section.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

William Stewart Loggie

Unionist

Mr. LOGGIE:

The point made by the hon. member for Royal (Mr. McLean), I think, is well taken. Many creditors may not be present at the meeting at which the remuneration is fixed, as they may not have known the matter was coming up. Would it not be well to provide for notice being given that the matter of remuneration will be considered at the meeting?

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Unionist

Mr. NESBITT:

I quite agree that the notice should state that the remuneration will be considered at the meeting, but I would not like to see the trustee bound to get a majority value of the creditors there, because in many cases it might be impossible. If they took any interest in the matter, the notice would bring them. I think the majority of the creditors present should have the right to fix the remuneration. As to the contention that the creditors should not be allowed to appeal to the court, I think they should; the trustee should also be allowed to appeal if he thinks his remuneration unsatisfactory.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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L LIB

Daniel Duncan McKenzie (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Laurier Liberal

Mr. McKENZIE:

I do not know that the inspector should have anything to say about the remuneration of the trustee. I think the subsection would be improved by striking out of line 20 the words " or by the inspectors in case the creditors fail to provide therefor."

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Alfred Ernest Fripp

Unionist

Mr. FRIPP:

There is another reason why the trustee, in the absence of any action taken by the creditors, should satisfy the court that his remuneration is reasonable. This Act is passed in the interest of the debtor as well as the creditor. Now the debtor is not protected unless the court passes on the remuneration.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Hugh Havelock McLean

Unionist

Mr. McLEAN:

The amendment seems quite satisfactory except that it does not provide for notice being given that the matter of remuneration will be discussed at the meeting. All hon. members seem to agree that that should be included.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

I honestly think we are making a little too much out of this. The remuneration fixed by the creditors is subject to review by the court upon application of the trustee or of any creditor.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Hugh Havelock McLean

Unionist

Mr. McLEAN:

Our experience has been that in a number of cases, estates have

been robbed by the creditors giving too much.

Amendment agreed to.

Subsection as amended agreed to.

On subsection 2-limited to 5 per cent:

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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L LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Laurier Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

I have received communications from various firms in Montreal who hope to be appointed trustees under this Act. They object to this section particularly, because it limits the remuneration to 5 per cent of the cash receipts. They represent that a small estate of $1,000 to $1,200, which may give them no end of trouble, would pay them only $50 or $60. They think the percentage should be increased, and I should be glad to get the opinion of the Committee on the matter.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

If the hon. gentleman is prepared to discuss cutting down the percentage in the case of larger estates, I think the discussion would be worth while.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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L LIB
L LIB

Georges Parent

Laurier Liberal

Mr. PARENT:

We are told that this Bill among other things seeks to reduce the cost of winding up companies. Under the Winding-Up Act the liquidator generally does not get as much as 5 per cent, particularly in real estate cases. In the city of Montreal the judge limits the fee of the liquidator of a real estate ' company to about 2.j per cent, while on moveable property he allows 5 per cent. This subsection allows 5 per cent for both real estate and moveable property, and if one of the objects of the Bill is to reduce the expenses of the proceedings, I do not think it is going very far in that direction. The courts in Montreal and Quebec aTe giving 2i per cent on real estate, and I submit that this 5 per cent should be reduced to 2| per cent.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

This 5 per cent is only on the net cash and not on the value of the real estate. In most cases the real estate will be found to be heavily encumbered. If it is too much the court can reduce it under this clause.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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L LIB
UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

It says:

subject to review toy the court but no application by the trustee to review the allowance shall be entertained unless the question of his remuneration has been brought before a meeting of creditors or inspectors before the preparation of the final dividend sheet.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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L LIB
UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

I do not think he gets anything unless the creditors vote it. He might have a lot of trouble and get no cash, and the creditors, I assume, would take that into consideration in fixing the remuneration.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION
UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

I would like to call the attention of the Solicitor General to line 27. "subject to review by the court." At whose instance shall the review be had? I suggest that it be provided that the review shall be at the instance of any party interested.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

Perhaps we might make it at the instance of the debtor, or of the creditor, or of the trustee.

Topic:   BANKRUPTCY ACT.
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April 25, 1919