May 23, 1918

L LIB

Ernest Lapointe

Laurier Liberal

Mr. E. LAPOINTE:

I desire in connection with this vote to offer a suggestion, or present a request to the Government- perhaps I should say that I am only claiming a right. I was in London last year and I happened to go to the High Commissioner's office in company 10 ip.m. with two lawyers from the city of Quebec-Mr. J. E. Chapleau, K.C., and Mr. Simon Lapointe, K.C. One of my companions was curious to learn whether he could be understood in French in the High Commissioner's office. The first official to whom he spoke only shook his head. He then went into the various rooms in the building and tried to get the information he wanted, but nowhere in the High Commissioner's office in London could the French language be understood. Now, Mr. Chairman, the French language is spoken everywhere in London. In the large stores, in all the hotels, in all the public offices, and in the railway stations, notices are posted in both languages. In all the large churches, even of the Church of England-and thereare very few Frenchmen who belong to that denomination-French is recognized. In St. Paul's Cathedral and the other churches you will observe notices posted in both French and English. In the city of London the French language occupies the position which it enjoys in all civilized countries and among all educated people. Sir, it is a pity, and I thought it was regrettable, that the only place where French could not be either spoken or understood was the office of the High Commissioner for Canada, a country in which the French language is official. I avail myself of this opportunity to ask that this grievance be redressed, and that at least one of the three clerks who are to 'be appointed as a result of this vote shall be a person able to understand the questions of gentlemen of French extraction who may go to London and who want to be heard and understood in their own language. , ,

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS.
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CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE FOSTER:

My hon. friend is a little mistaken, but it is probably the wording of the item which has led to the error. The item does not mean that there are three additional clerks to be appointed to the High Commissioner's office, as my hon. friend will see when he notes that only $300 is being voted. What this means is that a statutory increase is asked for three clerks. However, that does not take away from the other portion of my hon. friend's remarks, and I shall have very great pleasure in giving the substance and the very words of his statement here to-night to the Prime Minister, under whom the High Commissioner's office is placed, and who will take the matter into consideration. I do not think that what my hon. friend has said is unreasonable.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS.
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RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.


Canadian Government Railways. To provide for the purchase of the following Railways at amounts not exceeding those set out in each case:- Elgin and Havelock Railway .. .. $30,0 00 00 York and Carleton Railway 18,000 00 St. Martin's Railway 60,000 00 Salisbury and Albert Railway .. .. 76,000 00 Moncton and Buctouohe Railway .. 70,000 00 Kent Northern Railway 60,000 00 Caraquet and Gulf Shore Railway .. 200,000 00



Mr. iCAHILL: Judging by this item there seems to be quite a flock of lame ducks seeking shelter under the protecting wings of the Minister of Railways and Canals. And before he gets too far into the railway game in this country, into the business of acquiring all the railways in sight, he and the Government should take into their very serious consideration the question of the counties which are paying bonuses to railways. The county of Pontiac, which I have the honour to represent, voted a bonus of $200,000 a few years ago to get a railroad. Of that they still have to pay $100,000. They will also have to assume their proportion of the cost of the purchase of these and other railroads; they have to stand the burden of the increased freight rates and passenger fares as well. They understood they were to be benefited by this railway when, they agreed to pay this bonus, but they have no railroad communication whatever, yet they are in a position of paying a bonus, and having to pay ferry charges eveTy time they go across the lake at Pembroke, representing an increased expenditure there of five or six thousand dollars a year to get their produce to market. While the minister is spending money for railways in lavish amounts, I think something should be done to relieve these people of that bonus. I think other counties than Pontiac have probably paid bonuses to have railroads built. If it is the policy of the Dominion of Canada to take over these railroads, they will, I hope, not demand the payment of at least that proportion of the bonus not yet paid.


UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

The matter referred to by the hon. member is of course a very large question, and it is the first time I have had any suggestion of this kind. I should be glad if he would put in writing to me the suggestion he has just made in order that I may give it consideration during the recess. It is too large a question to discuss here at this late hour. With respect to the several small lines in the; province of New Brunswick, covered by this item, they have been operating for years at a loss, and it is really now impossible for them to operate on account of the loss they are making. We are now taking them over, and not at a price that any one would feel is exorbitant For instance, in the case of the Elgin and Havelock railway, they have agreed to sell their lines for $30,000. The rails alone on that line, if we were to sell them for scrap, are worth about $80,000.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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L LIB

Charles Murphy

Laurier Liberal

Mr. MURPHY:

May I ask my hon.

friend who are the directors of that railway, or, at least, who is the president?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

I could not say. There is a Mr. Pearson in Halifax, connected with it. All of these railways we are getting at about one-third the value of the rails. I have a word to say about the last two. For the Kent Northern, I have put in an amount of $60,000. They have not agreed to accept that amount. Neither have the Caraquet and Gulf Shore railway agreed- to accept the amount of $200,000. To those two lines we have made these offers, which are on about the same basis as the others mentioned before. If they do net accept, we will not pay any higher price, and these amounts will not be paid. But I am placing them in the Estimates to give them the opportunity, and to allow us to take over the lines, and thus close out the branch lines which are so unsatisfactory in the province of New Brunswick.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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L LIB

Charles Murphy

Laurier Liberal

Mr. MURPHY:

Out of deference to the wishes of hon. gentlemen to wind up the business of the session and get home, I do not at this stage intend to enter the protest against these purchases, which it

was my original intention to do. However,

I desire my hon. friend the Minister of Railways and Canals-who refers to a matter relating to the county represented by my hon. friend from Pontiac, . involving, I think $100,000, as so large that he has not time to deal with it, tout who is asking us to vote $518,000 as a comparatively small sum to these other railways!-to- submit to the House at the opening of the next session the full correspondence relating to the purchases of these roads, giving all details as to the ownership and directorates in each case.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

I shall certainly be glad to do that.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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L LIB

Onésiphore Turgeon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. TURGEON:

I could not allow this item to pass without making some remarks.

I have explained my position with regard to the Caraquet and Gulf Shore Railway, and I do not intend to rehearse the argument I put before the minister at that time. However, my chief fear was that the company in possession of this railway would not accept the amount that was offered to them. In the early days of the session, I suggested to the Minister of Public Works that the best way to handle this matter would be to expropriate the road and arbitrate afterwards. We want to ensure a service equal, at least, to the necessities of the community in the county of Gloucester. I suggested at the time to the minister that, although I did not think the proposed amount of $200,000 would be accepted, he might put it in the Estimates. He refused at the time to put it in. On second thought, he has included the amount of $200,000, which is in the Estimates together with the corollary "not exceding those set out in each case." I am afraid these words will render an arrangement as impossible as it was last week when I spoke on this question. The Minister of Public Works especially knows the feeling existing to-day in the county of Gloucester with reference to transportation facilities, which are of vital moment for our important industries which cannot do without an efficient service. I had hoped, before prorogation that I might possibly get either from the Minister of Public Works or the Minister of Railways and Canals a -statement that would dispel the disquiet now prevailing.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

If my hon. friend wants a statement I will give it to him now. We have offered them $200,000 for the railway. They cannot make two hundred thousand cents out of it for the next ten years. We will not arbitrate. We will not pay any more. We think they will take it.

Branch lines-to faring- Lines up to Canadian Government Railways Branch lines standard, $200,000.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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L LIB

Charles Murphy

Laurier Liberal

Mr. MURPHY:

I desire to ask my hon. friend if this amount is to be expended on the branch lines which were set out in the previous item.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

Exactly, if we get them all. But if we do not get the Caraquet and Gulf Shore or the Kent Northern, we will only need probably a third of the amount.

Railways generally-Contribution towards cost of construction of a railway bridge on the Canada Central Railway, over the Peace River, at or near Peace River Crossing, Alberta, $175,00'0.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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L LIB

Charles Murphy

Laurier Liberal

Mr. MURPHY:

Who is bearing the rest of that cost?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

The Alberta Government.

To acquire free and clear of all charges, en-cumbranoes or claims, at any public sale, the Quebec and Saguenay railway, extending from its junction with the Quebec, Montmorency and Charlevoix railway to Nairn Palls, Que., about 62.3 miles, at a price not exceeding $3,489,313.53, $3,489,313.53.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

I desire to add to the end of this item the words "exclusive of any sums paid out of amounts voted by Parliament in 1916 and 1917." That is so that there may be no misunderstanding.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNION

John Gillanders Turriff

Unionist

Mr. TURRIFF:

What is the total amount that has been paid out?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

About $1,500,000, in addition to this.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. GAHILL:

Will the minister explain this item a little more fully?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS AND CANALS-CHARGEABLE . TO CAPITAL.
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May 23, 1918